Nick's WW2 Multiplayer Realism Mod

[InfArmMot]

Nick, from the outlook, your mod look to be really in-depth.

How did you work out the meticulous accuracy in the characteristics of all warships?


Also, coming from Denmark, yes, the occupation was in fact very relaxed, until August 29th 1943. Here Danish and German soldiers fought, killed and wounded each other again. Stupid brother war. In fact, you could say that here in Denmark we had 2 invasions:

April 9th 1940 (Operation Weserübung)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Weserübung

August 29th 1943 (Operation Safari) most of the danish fleet scuttled
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Safari

1940 Operation Weserübung the Danish Kingdom
And yes, a political deal was made between Berlin and Copenhagen. That is why the Danish military was told to stand down, and no real mobilization ever occurred. We could have mobilized 160.000 troops, but only some 500 border guards provided Ready Ammunition only, were allowed to engage in a symbolic fight, and only for a few hours.

Our sea mines
Plus, on top of that and more importantly, we handed over our mine-maps, of our already active and effective minefields in all three straits. We handed them over to the Kriegsmarine! This, if I recall it correctly, on April the 8th 1940? Most people don't think about this fact, but we controlled these straits and had already mined them. So zero attack on Norway, that is from the Baltic part, without free passage through our straits.

Information about Weserübung, from Abwehr
Further more, our Government knew Hitler would attack. It had information's about the attack, already on April the 4th 1940. So, basically 5 days in advance and thus plenty of time to mobilize and deploy extra minefields and to deploy our submarines. The warning about an attack on Denmark, came from the German Abwehr, from a german officer, a Hans Paul Oster, working for Canaris. Oster was totally anti Hitler. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Oster

Validation of the Abwehr information
Now, his information's was validated by 'spies' from the Danish merchant company MAERSK, several times hereafter, and at least on April the 8th. See, back then, as today, MAERSK had employees in most German harbors. They observed the German movement of troops and equipment onboard a huge amount of ships. Just like Standard Oil, MAERSK also had its own intelligence network. They still have it today. All big corporations have them. Something that is not covered in the game, at least in terms of intelligence.

MAERSK

Maersk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sweden build a Danish brigade - partly - for a planned Swedish attack on occupided Denmark and partly as an act of a brother nation
Nick, if you want to make your MOD even more historical, then Sweden should receive a few hundred danish troops, already on April the 9th 1940. A number steadily increasing to some 5000 danish troops, in the years to come. A brigade was formed out of them, called The Danish Brigade or DANFORCE. It was to take part of a planned Swedish invasion, of occupied Denmark, against the Wehrmacht. What most people dont know, Sweden planned a scenario of a Swedish preemptive war against Nazi Germany, on Danish territory. Sweden also loaned the money to Denmark, in order to equip, train and supply the brigade, ending up having its own light military aircrafts too.

Infrastructure on Danish and Norwegian territory
Just like the British deployed an Airfield on the Ferry Islands, the Luftwaffe and the Kriegsmarine expanded the Danish and Norwegian Airfields and habors too. Thus, during the occupation, our level of infrastructure, did in fact recieve an unsual large boost. In that sense, we actually benifited from World War Two. In Denmark at least, only a few hundred buildings was damaged or destroyed. Our communication system was also improved, as part of the Luftwaffe Air Defence of Denmark, shooting down some 1500 allied aircrafts during the occupation.

British response to Weserübung in Danish territory
Also, following the occupation of Denmark, United Kingdom occupied the Ferry Islands. Deploying a garrison of, if I recall it correct, 8000 troops. This garrison left again when the war ended in May 1945. In 1942-1943 United Kingdom also build an Airport on the Ferry Islands.

The British Operation Valentine April 13th 1940

British occupation of the Faroe Islands - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The British - Swedish controversy 1940

On 20 June 1940, five vessels of the Swedish Navy arrived in the Faroe Islands. Four (HSwMS Psilander, Puke, Romulus and Remus) were destroyers bought from Italy, one with civilian passengers; the fifth (Castor) was a tanker converted to military status. Britain seized all the ships under armed threat and moved them to the Shetland Islands. Although Sweden was a neutral country and not at war with Britain, the British feared Germany would seize them if they continued to Sweden. After political negotiations Sweden secured their return. The British Navy had stripped equipment and caused damage to the ships, which Britain later gave compensation for. The Swedish commander was criticized by other Swedish officers for conceding the ships without resistance.

Denmark supplied Nazi Germany with food

The problem of limited food supplies left its mark on Germany and the Nazi regime during World War II. The Germans faced diminishing food rations and to a great extent had to rely on supplies from occupied Europe. To a small state like Denmark, with its precarious geo-political position, this turned out to be crucial. Thanks to its advanced agricultural production and fisheries and a generous German price policy, Germany was able to extract a maximum of food from Denmark without damaging the structure of Danish agricultural production. Deliveries culminated in 1943–1945, as Denmark supplied German big cities with 14% of their consumption of meat and pork and more than 20% of the Wehrmacht’s consumption, while Danish butter constituted nearly 9% of consumption in big cities and as much as one third of the Wehrmacht’s consumption during the same period. On this account, Denmark obtained a certain political freedom of action. In internal reports, German authorities in Copenhagen and in the Foreign Ministry repeatedly pointed to the fact that any attempt at changing the occupation regime in Denmark would rid Denmark of its democratically based government and jeopardize the abundant food supplies to Germany. The article argues that Danish food supplies to Germany provided the main reason why democratic Denmark was allowed to maintain its political system despite the German occupation.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03468755.2013.817778?scroll=top&needAccess=true&journalCode=shis20

 

[Nick3210]

Yes, you have stated all the reasons why Denmark should not be annexed in 1940, as it made in vanilla.
Denmark also have food trade with Germany and passes merchant ships to Allies - I also implemented this nuances.

How did you work out the meticulous accuracy in the characteristics of all warships?

As I wrote, all characteristics of warships taken not from the sky as in vanilla but from the real ships and mathematically converted to game values:

"The SeaAttack parameter based on: number of guns, fire rate, weight of projectile, armor penetration and in some cases - velocity of projectile and weight of explosive in the projectile.

The Sea Defense parameter based on: thickness of main armor, angle of inclination, bevel of armor deck, effect of destruction of the projectile's tip.

The Strength/Organization parameters based on the Sea Defense parameter as well as on armoring of other key parts of warship.

AntiAir, fuel consumption and other parameters are also calculated as accurately as possible.

The Strength parameter (ship's Hit Points) varies from 33 HP in one destroyer (100 HP in one unit of three destroyers) to Yamato-class with 160 HP."

Spoiler

Anti-air calculation

Spoiler

Do you know what parameter of warships was the most difficult to find and calculate?
Fuel consumption and Range!
You can't just take oil consumption and range data from Wikipedia and set it in the game.
Because at different speeds, ships consume different amounts of fuel and goes different range.
To make true realizm in this aspects, you must recalculate speed and range of all warships to common standard - 60% of the maximum speed (my tests of the DH-Full Map showed that ships move through the world map with roughly 60% of their maximum speed, this is normal, this is correct, this is very realistic, warships do not sail long distances at maximum speed, 60% is good vanilla game setting)
So I was needed to calculate carefully this not easy task.

Spoiler

 

[InfArmMot]

So just to understand it correctly, Scharnhorst could fire 3 rounds per minute? Yes, oil consumption will be difficult to implement. Which is why we need a patch that apply a specific amount of supply and fuel to any specific ship. And a simple speed modifier; slow, normal, fast.

Looking good. great mod. Impressive!

 

[Nick3210]

So just to understand it correctly, Scharnhorst could fire 3 rounds per minute?

Who knows!
These all are very approximate parameters. But we don't have any others, so we need to use that we have.
It seems Scharnhorst's guns/mounts were more advanced than "pocket battleships" guns/mounts and could theoretically fire faster:

 

[Cohen]

Good one for the 'forced' trades that USA has to feed Japan, and I assume Soviets too for Germany.
Saw far too many games where Axis is blocked in IC expansion by Allies scooping up all the rares of the world or so.

 

[Nick3210]

Right, my task as MP-modmaker is to prevent all possible multiplayer abuses technically, which would minimize the number of bans in our MP Rules.

In the next version of Mod, I already added new ability for Germany - to buy half (!) of USA money during one year. This is necessary for a better balance, for a bit strengthening of Germany's start. And UK can buy the other half of USA money.
Also, before the War, Germany will be able to buy rares in UK and oil in USA. (USSR have not large number of extra resources for sale to Germany)

Spoiler

 

[Nick3210]

The World sensation!
The main Event of 2020!

Even more Realism&Historicity in Hoi from Grandpa Nick !

The newest Mod Update!

FORGOTTEN HEROES​

More than 800 top-generals of WW2 have been thoroughly researched and got their true skills and perks!
A lot of undeservedly forgotten WW2 heroes were rehabilitated and returned up from oblivion of 1-2-3 levels of the Vanilla Game!
And of course some unduly overrated generals have sunk to the bottom.

Important Warning!
After testing a game with realistic/historical generals, it will be very difficult to go back playing with the old, boring, unrealistic generals, you do it at your own risk!

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Mod Version 5.39, check summ ATGK
for Darkest Hour v.1.05.1
Download
Nick's WW2 Multiplayer Realism Mod (Legal Censored BETA-version 5.39) here:
https://yadi.sk/d/LnTycm03P9vGzg (press button "Скачать")
Unzip it to your Darkest Hour\Mods folder
Made in English and Russian languages.
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Description of the main improvements of new Update:

1. Maximum Realism&Historicity of the generals.

The last time I worked on improving the realism of generals was 5 years ago. Undoubtedly my Generals were made better than in vanilla, but since then my ideas and my concepts have changed a lot and the quality of my generals has ceased to satisfy me.
So I decided to re-check all the top-generals (3-5 lvl) again and bring them to maximum possible realism.

Of course, setting of skills and perks for generals, in any case, is a very subjective exercise and can be controversial. Of course, I do not claim that exactly my version of skills and perks are the absolute truth.

But I claim that all skills and perks were set, based on the facts, on the basis of a thorough study of the combat path, successes, failures, combat awards and promotions.
With all the subjectivity of assessments, basing on the facts of the combat biography of generals, undoubtedly gives a much more realistic result than the strange unrealistic/random distribution of their skills and perks, as in a vanilla game.

To get acquainted with each General, I studied all 3-4 separate Wikipedia pages on English/German/Russian and sometimes Ukrainian for all generals. And ofcourse also Ita/Spa/Hun/Rom Wikipedia for their generals.
Different Wikipedia can have very different texts, different facts, different estimates, and this is very useful for an objective assessment.

I also used some Russian electronic encyclopedias for Soviet generals and this resource for studying all German generals:
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/

And that's not all. I didn't limit myself to Wikipedia ratings, I studied cross-references with descriptions of concrete battles in which Genaral participated, in order to understand better his contribution to the result of these fights.

I think this was the first such in-depth study of such a huge number of WW2 generals for the purposes of the gaming industry.
Yes, this is what happens when a game is making for fun, not for profit.

At the moment, have been checked/fixed:
all 3-5 levels and many 2-level generals of Germany, USSR, Britain, Italy, SPA/HUN/ROM/CAN/AST

Jap and Usa Generals will be done later, after I finish USA modding. USA is still not completed.

Sorry for the long boring text, here are some screenshots:

Examples how top-generals look now:

Spoiler

Some examples of the forgotten in Hoi-2/DH heroes:

Spoiler

GER

SOV

ENG/ITA

A few comments about my concept:

- Generals got Terrain perks in case if they had at least some local successes/achievements on this type of terrain.

- I give the Logistics Wizard perk mainly for having a higher military education such as the General Staff Academy.
If there is no higher military education, then this perk is given only in the case of real amazing achievements in the speed of movement or the quality of supplying. Almost all 4-5 level top-generals have this perk, which is logical. Of course, top SS-generals also have this perk even without higher military education, because they got the advantage of improved supplies.

- Butcher (was Assaulter) and Counterattacker are "bad perks", as these combat events cause increased MP losses. They are found in large numbers in Soviet generals and very rarely in German.
But these two perks serve as an identifier for SS-generals. If you see a German General who has only a "bad combat-events perk" and no good one, you can surely put him on the SS-division

Spoiler

I remind that evaluating of generals' skills/perks is a very subjective exercise, and I am always open to criticism and alternative estimates.

2. Boosting Intelligence above 10 level now makes sense!

Hoi2 is so deep Game that even after 12 years it is difficult to know everything about it.
It's a shame to admit, but despite 10 years of multiplayer games, I just now accidentally found out that Intelligence above 10 level does not improve protection from enemy Intelligence. *falespam*
I.e. all levels above 10 are practically useless in Multiplayer!

OK, late is better than never!
I immediately fixed this misunderstanding, and now it is profitable to boost Intelligence above 10 level even in Multiplayer Games.
All main MP countries got events for additional bonuses for 14-16-18-20 Intelligence levels.

Spoiler

3. Efficiency of transport aircraft was fixed and set to maximum Realyzm.

I also fixed another old flaw in the vanilla game.
I always knew that the efficiency of transport planes is too low, but I postponed studying this issue.
Finally, I got into it.
Based on the Demyansk Pocket statistics, I have set the correct/realistic efficiency of transport air Units.
To do this, it was necessary to increase this efficiency by 10 (!!) times compared to vanilla!
Now 1 transport unit (it consists of 120-140 Ju-52 in my Mod) can historically supply 100,000 people (6 divisions with brigades) in automatic (day or night) regime.

# _MISSION_AIR_SUPPLY_
0 # 0 = disabled by default, 1 = enabled by default
7.0 # !!! was 0.8 !!! # Starting missions efficiency. Valid values: 0.05 to 10.0

4. Russian winter 1941-1942

I found the air temperature charts for 1941-1942 winter in Russia and based on them set the exact dates of the beginning and end of frosts. Also was set special anti-bonuses for Germany and USSR for this period.

Spoiler

I tried to adjust the game parameters so that the German and Soviet losses from frostbite and other diseases were close to realism.
Among other things, for this purpose, the Attrition Severity Modifier was increased 4 (!) times compared to vanilla DH.

# Attrition Severity Modifier
2.0 # 0.5 # 0.05

Spoiler

5. Maximum Realism in the ratio of wounded returning to the front.

After studying all the materials I could find for Ger/Sov/UK/USA, I set the most correct parameters for the "Trickle-back factor" (starting value and effect of new technologies)
In Hoi-2/DH this coefficient means - How many wounded soldiers return to the front after treatment, of all battle-losses.
(At the same time, while studying historical statistics, it is important not to forget that not all cured soldiers return to the front, many remain disabled.)

# Trickle-back factor for manpower from losses in battle.
0.25 # 0.3 # 0.15 # 0.2 # 0.35 ### 0.25 + 20% = 0.3 ger 45% from 70% (or 50% from 60%) = 0.3 in 1941 / sov 75% from 66% = 0.49 in 1944

In 1939-1940, according to various estimates, Germany had approximately 70% of wounded out of all 100 percent of combat losses and approximately 45% of them returned to the front. (or 50% from 60% by another estimates)
In other words the current total trickleback factor in 1939-40 should be approximately equal to 0.3.

All countries got the same Trickle-back coefficients, and only USSR, according to realism and historicity, got event with additional bonus.

Spoiler

6. A bit update/fixing in Germany and Italy OOBs

It seems that now, after 7 years of work and searching, I can finally claim that I made the most accurate OOBs on 01.01.1936 that have ever been implemented in games, especially for key MP countries - Ger/Sov/UK/Ita/Jap.
Although of course it is never possible to be sure of 100% accuracy, I am always open to criticism and new information about OOBs.
The only country in Europe that OOB I haven't checked deeply yet is France, I'll try to do this later.

Also added new - Finland gets historic 1941-OOB by event, after the end of the Winter War.

7. Scandinavia/Finland, Iran and Iraq got maximum realistic Map!

I continue my titanic work to check/fix vanilla DH Map, full of ridiculous epic geographical errors.
This time the territories of Scandinavia/Finland, Iran and Iraq have been totally checked and brought to maximum Realism!

As usual, provinces were carefully checked by old WW2-era military Maps and modern Google-Maps and got correct terrain types, distances between provinces, connections/disconnections, Infra, ports, shores, airfields and all other.
Yes, I'm an absolutely crazy guy, I even was not lasy to draw icons of ports, airfields and beaches on their real geographic visual locations or close to it as possiple

Lol !
Now I can mock all Hoi-Maps, just need to see if Bergen has a ground airfield, which in reality was not there, ahah.

Scandinavia
(Note: Unit in Frederikshavn blocks the Strait for enemy fleets.)

Spoiler

Sirya/Iran/Iraq also are very important region for big Multiplayer Games.

An interesting discovery, the provinces Zahedan and Gwadar in WW2-era had no road connections (and even today this area looks difficult to pass, although today they are connected by two roads).
This fact has a significant impact on usual multiplayer gameplay.

How about trying a WW2-Game on the real WW2-geography, instead of a Fantasy World, with fantasy geography that only vaguely resembles our Earth?

Spoiler

Additional Map improvements for Multiplayer Gameplay!

Gibraltar and Suez now are connected to the nearest sea-provinces (instead of Straits!).
Now 1 damn enemy paratrooper will not be able to block(destroy) 60 British transports with 60 British divisions in the Strait, retreating after the heroic defense of these Straits!

Spoiler

8. A lot of other special Multiplayer improvements!

Germany got new events for forced purchase of resources from the Allies in peace-time.
Available only in Multiplayer.

Spoiler

Germany got new events for forced supply from Hungary and Romania in 1936-1937.
This is convenient if there are not enough players for Hungary and Romania.
Available only in Multiplayer.

Spoiler

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I remind that my gang of 3-5 old experienced Hoi-2 multiplayer veterans is interested in finding the same team of 3-5 experienced Hoi-2/DH multiplayer veterans for an exciting joint Game.

Me and my guys don't play primitive casual MP games.
We play only serious big smart Games, with carefully pre-game preparation (testing countries), Team Strategy, high-quality Multiplayer Rules, and finally only at high-quality Multiplayer Mods.

If you are interested in such Games - contact me!
Our MP Discord:
https://discord.gg/sP7rHmg

 

[Lord Rommel]

1.) nice to see new version of old mods.
2.) unfortunately i'm pretty sure that your german OOB is wrong. I have redone the OOBs for TRP too. I'm sure that my OOBs arent 100% fine but they are pretty close - and Germany is one of the nations i would say i'm as close as possible - because it is my home country
You should check "lexikon-der-wehrmacht".
In 1936 the Wehrmacht had only 24 infantry divisions. Units like the 25. oder 26. Infanterie-Division werent established in early 36.

After looking into some other OOBs i would recommend to rethink and rework some OOBs ^^

just m2c.

 

[Nick3210]

In 1936 the Wehrmacht had only 24 infantry divisions. Units like the 25. oder 26. Infanterie-Division werent established in early 36.

Absolutely true, they haven't been there yet!
But having a third wave of 12 divisions with 5 HP is not an OOB-mistake. This is just different concepts.
In the previous version of my Mod, I also had only 24 division, according to the brutal historicity. And I thought for a long time do I need display the third wave of divisions or not.
But, since, I believe, the third wave was already in the plans of the General Staff, I see no reason why this cannot be displayed as 12 divisions with 5 HP.
So, yes, I added them in this version of the Mod.
I note, that in my Mod there is no magic free mobilization as in Vanilla DH, when 200,000 people can magically mobilized in one day. These 12 divisions will have to be created by replenish them from 5 HP to 100 HP and it take an IC-price.

Paradoxically, but by my mind this option better reflects the historicity, although in fact in January 1936 these 12 divisions really did not exist yet.
Although the option with only 24 divisions, no doubt, is also absolutely correct.

P.S.
I always compare my OOBs with yours, with interest.

 

[Nick3210]

Germany is one of the nations i would say i'm as close as possible - because it is my home country

Well, let's check it

Your OOB have not some key German troops which already existed on 01.01.1936.

I find it very paradoxical that a Russian guy tells to German guy that "entering the Rhineland" is impossible without the Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler... if we are talking about historicity But you don't even have it in OOB.

But on the contrary, I see in your OOB a unit with 100 HP, that was created only in 1940, true?

So, it is obvious that you have ample opportunities to make your German 1936-OOB more accurate.

P.S.
Although, to be honest, I admit that when comparing our German OOB, I found a little error in my version.
My Gebirgs-Division has only 30 HP. Yes, I was mistaken, I made it as a brigade of one regiment. Now I re-checked, it turned out to be a brigade of two regiments. So, yes, next time I will increase Gebirgs-Division from 30 HP to 60 HP.

 

[Lord Rommel]

Well, let's check it

Your OOBs have not some key German troops which already existed on 01.01.1936.

The SS units arent part of the OOB because in 1936 there were no plans to form frontline war units out of these elements.
Furthermore in TRP we are using different units (own models) for the SS. So they can be actived by decision before the war.
But they will be armored units from the start. We are against deleting and readding units because in MP games u can exploit it
AND it we wont lose the "veterancy value" of the divisions they have earned by combat.

For the 7. Flieger-Division: Different story. I had often think about adding the General Göring Regiment but i havent add them because
first of they were still a police unit in 1936. It was a privat project by Göring and not intended to become an airborne combat unit. Futhermore
even the socalled "7. Flieger-Division" was an airborne division at all. It was just an adminstrative construction for all different experimental types
of airborne and airlanding formations and commandos. Out of my view u cant compare those elements with real combat units like the soviet airborne
units that were trained based on a doctrine/concept of airlanding combat units.
So i think when someone is interested in airborne he should invest into the idea of a airlanding combat division.
But i see the problem here.

I find it very paradoxical that a Russian guy tells to German guy that "entering the Rhineland" is impossible without the Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler... if we are talking about historicity But you don't even have it in OOB.

Sorry. But that is not TRP In TRP Rheinland is an event and no decision. And u have to move anykind of unit into the trigger area and not specific units.

But on the contrary, I see in your OOB a unit with 100 HP, that was created only in 1940, true?

So, it is obvious that you have ample opportunities to make your German 1936-OOB more accurate.

Funny story. The unit was added to prevent an ingame glitch. When u check TRP u will see that we havent locked any division in place.
When we have locked it in place there must a reason. The Kanalwachunit is such a unit. We discovered a bug/glitch that allowed soviets (or any other
nation) to transport supplies throw the Nord-Ostsee-Kanal in wartime when there is no division in the "canal province". So we add the fictional unit to prevent
abusing the glitch. We had seen it in a multiplayer game long time ago.

P.S.
Although, to be honest, I admit that when comparing our German OOB, I found a little error in my version.
My Gebirgs-Division has only 30 HP. Yes, I was mistaken, I made it as a brigade of one regiment. Now I re-checked, it turned out to be a brigade of two regiments. So, yes, next time I will increase Gebirgs-Division from 30%HP to 60%HP.

Jeah. The Gebirgsbrigade is a kind of wired formation. Had my problems with it too.

Thx for your breakdown. So i see that there are reasons for any structure in the OOBs.

Two question:
- Any reason why the italian celere division are combined in a single division?
And why do they have an armored car brigade?
Basing on my intel the Celere had not a single armored car within its TOE.

- Any reason why UK had so many armored car brigades at the 1936 OOB? As far as i know armored cars were one of the elements the brits were missing in early war.

Thx

 

[Nick3210]

So we add the fictional unit to prevent
abusing the glitch.

In any case, nothing can justify the fact that this unit has 100 HP in 1936.
A 1940-unit with 5HP in 1936 (like my non-existent 12 divisions) would look much more correct.

The SS units arent part of the OOB because in 1936 there were no plans to form frontline war units out of these elements.
...But they will be armored units from the start.

Hmm... These basic SS units are the root from which the first 4 SS-divisions were created in 1939-1940. I'm sure this roots should be present.

But, 4 first SS-divisions became armored only in 42-43 years! Do you get them so late at only in 1942?
In 39-41, they were motorized brigades/divisions.
The only possible correct implementation of 4 first SS-divisions divisions is only the path of their historical gradual evolution from motorized brigades - to motorized divisions - and only then in 42-to armored divisions.

Also, the Goering parachute regiment was the starting core, which later transformed into the 7th division.

As usual, we have very different views.. I can't agree with your concept.

If in March 1936 ordinary Wehrmacht units enter Cologne instead of LSSAH, you will not be able to arrange a Grand Propaganda, your propaganda effect will suffer, think about it!! HOW DARE YOU !!!

So i see that there are reasons for any structure in the OOBs.

True, when I compare my OOB with others, I keep in mind that there may be different concepts, which may cause some discrepancies, but which are not errors. So I know that do not need to compare the statistics panel, it need to look at each unit.
But at the same time, there may be errors in OOB that are definitely errors and that cannot be explained by any concepts.

- Any reason why the italian celere division are combined in a single division?

I agree, the only Italian celere Unit turned out VERY well-fed , because it includes all 2-3 Italian cavalry units.

Just a cavalry unit in my mod has a strength of 13,500 people, called the Cavalry Сorps and consists of 2 cavalry divisions of 6600 people each.

Cavalry divisions of all countries was usually at least half the size of infantry... 6600 had the biggest soviet Cav-divisions, other was even less.
Once I used conception of separate cavalry divisions of 6600 people and 70 HP... but my MP-guys told me that it would be much more correct to make full-fledged Cav-units of 100 HP, consisting of two Cav-divisions 6600+6600, and I agreeded with them that conception is really better!

It is exactly for this reason that my USSR has twice less cavalry units as there were Cav-divisions in reality. Each Cav Unit is a Corps of two Cav-divisions = 13500 men and 100 HP, which is in the right balance with the Infantry divisions in strength, stats, HP and all other.

So after calculating the structure of 2.5 Italian cavalry units, I saw that they can give only one very fat cavalry unit with brigade, not more.
They are really not enough for two cavalry units 13,500 + 13,500.
By the way, during the War, they also acted together as one large cavalry unit, so all this is pretty realistic!

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But I have a counter question about your Italian OOB.
At 01.01.36 there was only one motorized division out of two - 102-Trento, in Africa. And according to my data, it was located near Tunis, not near Egypt.

The other 101-Trieste appeared only in 1939 and in my opinion should not be present at the start of the game in any form.
(although Trieste appear in my mod by event before the war, replasing "Po" Infantry Division.)
Why do you have Trieste from 1939, if you are even against 12 German divisions of the third wave 1936-37?
In 1936 Trieste still should be "Po" Infantry Division...

And why other several Infantry divisions in North Italy made as motorised?
As far as I understand, in WW2 Italy only had two fully-fledged motorized divisions - Trento and Trieste.
Although some regular Infantry divisions in 1936 were given additional trucks during the war in Ethiopia, but this is a temporary solution in Ethiopia, these trucks were not in the divisions' staff.

 

[Lord Rommel]

In any case, nothing can justify the fact that this unit has 100 HP in 1936.
A 1940-unit with 5HP in 1936 (like my non-existent 12 divisions) would look much more correct.

Thats is an error that is fixed in our internal version. Back in 2018 i havent seen it.
At the end i took the "historical name" here to have a name for the anti glitch division ^^

I agree, the only Italian celere Unit turned out VERY well-fed , because it includes all 2-3 Italian cavalry units.

Just a cavalry unit in my mod has a strength of 13,500 people, called the Cavalry Сorps and consists of 2 cavalry divisions of 6600 people each.

Cavalry divisions of all countries was usually at least half the size of infantry... 6600 had the biggest soviet Cav-divisions, other was even less.
Once I used conception of separate cavalry divisions of 6600 people and 70 HP... but my MP-guys told me that it would be much more correct to make full-fledged Cav-units of 100 HP, consisting of two Cav-divisions 6600+6600, and I agreeded with them that conception is really better!

It is exactly for this reason that my USSR has twice less cavalry units as there were Cav-divisions in reality. Each Cav Unit is a Corps of two Cav-divisions = 13500 men and 100 HP, which is in the right balance with the Infantry divisions in strength, stats, HP and all other.

So after calculating the structure of 2.5 Italian cavalry units, I saw that they can give only one very fat cavalry unit with brigade, not more.
They are really not enough for two cavalry units 13,500 + 13,500.
By the way, during the War, they also acted together as one large cavalry unit, so all this is pretty realistic!

Well. It is an interesting concept.
So basing on your concept u had made the Wehrmacht Kavallerie-Division with a regular strength of ~6000 soldiers a single unit and 3 Italiens with a strength of ~7300 soldiers per Division into a single unit with max_strength of 100? I think basing on this concept a division with 135~150 strength would be better?
Do u have more information on the armored cars? Because i cant find any armored cars in my TOE files for the celere.

But I have a counter question about your Italian OOB.
At 01.01.36 there was only one motorized division out of two - 102-Trento, in Africa. And according to my data, it was located near Tunis, not near Egypt.

The other 101-Trieste appeared only in 1939 and in my opinion should not be present at the start of the game in any form.
(although Trieste appear in my mod by event before the war, replasing "Po" Infantry Division.)
Why do you have Trieste from 1939, if you are even against 12 German divisions of the third wave 1936-37? In 1936 it should be still "Po" Infantry Division.

Well. We dont have the 8a 'Po' Divisione. I have implemented its final form because basing on 'Iron Arm: The Mechanization of Mussolini's Army, 1920-40' the italian high command had decided to transform the 8a Divisione into a motorized unit for the planed armored corps as a result of the 1935 and 1936 Po valley manouvers.
The motorization should start when italian industry could deliver trucks. As far as i know the first batch of trucks were delivered in mid-36. It marked the start of the motorization of the 8a Divisione.

And why other several Infantry divisions in North Italy made as motorised?
As far as I understand, in WW2 Italy only had two fully-fledged motorized divisions.
Although some regular Infantry divisions in 1936 were given additional trucks during the war in Ethiopia, but this is a temporary solution in Ethiopia, these trucks were not in the divisions' staff.

Most of the divisions are so called "Divisione Fanteria autotransportabile". Basing on 'Iron Arm: The Mechanization of Mussolini's Army, 1920-40' the "Divisione autotransportabile" were "half motorized".They had enough transport capacity to move at least one of the two regiments by truck. So i thought it would be better to use motorized divisions here because of the speed bonus. I'm still not happy with the result but i dont want to add a new division type for the units because of the AI.
They are candidates for a rework but till today i hadnt find any way i preferred.

 

[Nick3210]

And why do they have an armored car brigade?
Basing on my intel the Celere had not a single armored car within its TOE.

- Any reason why UK had so many armored car brigades at the 1936 OOB? As far as i know armored cars were one of the elements the brits were missing in early war.

Yes, there are 5 "armored car" (in my mod this is not armored cars, but motorized/mechanized infantry!) brigades in Italy and it may look strange.
These brigades symbolize real 5 separate CCNN motorised regiments. CCNN Ifantry on motorcycles.
I added them to free divisions, because I don't know how to put brigades in the game pool in the start file.
(maybe you know how to do it?)

Britain - the same

I believe that during WW2 there were no brigades consisting only of armored cars at all.
So I changed the concept of this brigades.
Now it is infantry on motorcycles, "Hanomags", and Bren-carriers.
In the case of Britain, this is the cavalry, gradually transplanted to the Bren-carriers. That is why there is already no cavalry on the English island - I have already begun its gradual mechanization.

 

[Lord Rommel]

Yes, there are 5 "armored car" (in my mod this is not armored cars, but motorized/mechanized infantry!) brigades in Italy and it may look strange.
These brigades symbolize real 5 separate CCNN motorised regiments. CCNN Ifantry on motorcycles.
I added them to free divisions, because I don't know how to put brigades in the game pool in the start file.
(maybe you know how to do it?)

Britain - the same

You could use the "add_brigade" command. When game starts u could add the brigades by the event to the pool. DH Ai should attach pool brigades since 1.05A.

I believe that during WW2 there were no brigades consisting only of armored cars at all.
So I changed the concept of this brigades.
Now it is infantry on motorcycles, "Hanomags", and Bren-carriers.
In the case of Britain, this is the cavalry, gradually transplanted to the Bren-carriers. That is why there is already no cavalry on the English island - I have already begun its gradual mechanization.

Hm. I think the biggest "armored car" units were the US Cavalry groups of 1944~45.
I cant find my notes on those units but i think they had around 100 armored cars and light tanks in early 45.

 

[Nick3210]

So basing on your concept u had made the Wehrmacht Kavallerie-Division with a regular strength of ~6000 soldiers a single unit and 3 Italiens with a strength of ~7300 soldiers per Division into a single unit with max_strength of 100? I think basing on this concept a division with 135~150 strength would be better?

Just German Cavalry Unit have 60 HP.
Yes, there is indeed a small problem with the odd number of cavalry divisions.
The USSR also has one extra Cav-division, which is made as a unit with 50 HP.
Germany has one such unit.
Perhaps I should set a limit on replenishment of these odd/unpaired divisions, so that they can not be more than 50% in any case.
Yes, it seems right idea, to set 50-60% STR-Limit for these two Cav-units

They had enough transport capacity to move at least one of the two regiments by truck. So i thought it would be better to use motorized divisions here because of the speed bonus.
They are candidates for a rework but till today i hadnt find any way i preferred.

My infantry gets more trucks with each level.
in 1939 - 300 trucks, in 1941-500 trucks.
This allows to transport the regiments in parts, that is, it gives an increase in speed and get more speed +1 for level. Infantry become half-motorized in 1943 with +3 speed.
Therefore, I did not implement these old Italian divisions with an increased number of trucks... because after upgrading to infantry 39-41, they will automatically get these trucks and increase their speed.
That is in 41 year they will achieve realism at an additional speed as standart Infantry division.

You could use the "add_brigade" command. When game starts u could add the brigades by the event to the pool. DH Ai should attach pool brigades since 1.05A.

Yes.. but I dont' like/want this variant..
Although... anyway, I have starting events... and the work of this command will be invisible.. maybe it's not so bad way.

Hm. I think the biggest "armored car" units were the US Cavalry groups of 1944~45.
I cant find my notes on those units but i think they had around 100 armored cars and light tanks in early 45.

In my opinion, this can be still correctly implemented as a light-tank brigade.
I think it is not rational to occupy an entire brigade-line that really was used only in 1945 and only in one country.
But the brigades of infantry on motorcycles, hanomags and Bren-carriers (+ may be some Armored cars with them) really wide used.

 

[Nick3210]

And why do they have an armored car brigade?

I was wrong!
This is not CCNN.
These 5 mechanezed infantry brigades are 5 separate Bersaglieri Regiments. Infantry on motorcycles.

There were 12-13 Bersaglieri Regiments.
5 of them were parts of 2 motorized and 3 armored divisions
1-2 were in cavalry
1 was destroyed/disbanded
So last 4 free Bersaglieri regiments must be made as free brigades, plus 1 regiment attached to the cavalry.
I wanted to add the 6th free regiment, but there was no space available... I'll probably add it by command in the starting event.
It is more correct that there should be 6 free regiments instead of 5.

 

[InfArmMot]

It would be great if Edge of Darkness - at some point - would implement some of these changes. Looking awesome. I am not so strong in terms of providing each general a score, however, in terms of the German general Heinrici, it looks correct. I have read about him in several books on the battle for Berlin. He really was an elastic defender. If I recall correctly, Heinrici has a great intuition. He would often pull back his first line of light infantry, just before the red Army would assault. This so the Russian artillery would hit a target with no German troops. Then, when the russian assault units moved into the area of his first line, he would - sometimes - surprise and counterattack.

Edited:

Right, I read the whole update now, and as always Nick, your work is very impressive. In fact awesome.
However, since I am Danish, I do have a question about Frederikshavn: how did you reach the conclusion, that a unit here can block the sea-zone? Are you referring to the German naval guns in Hanstholm (Denmark) and Kristiansand (Norway), or something else?

Because as far as I know, only the German naval batteries in Hanstholm and Kristiansand, together, could block enemy ships entering Skaggerak.
Both batteries used 38 centimeter guns (Bismarck guns) and they could cover most of the sea-zone. In total 8 big naval guns.

https://bunkermuseumhanstholm.dk/en/ (Danish side)
http://www.noding.com/la8ak/k34.htm (Norwegian side)
http://www.wartourist.eu/TWTNewsletter/TWT03_200902_lores.pdf (PDF about this part of the Atlantic Wall)

The gun barrels are still there, used as a WW2 museum.

But in peacetime, I am not sure, how a Danish unit in Frederikshavn should be able to block the sea zone alone? You need a sister unit in Kristiansand. Or am I wrong?

 

[Nick3210]

However, since I am Danish, I do have a question about Frederikshavn: how did you reach the conclusion, that a unit here can block the sea-zone? Are you referring to the German naval guns in Hanstholm (Denmark) and Kristiansand (Norway), or something else?

Yes, I meant these coastal guns, as well as the possibility of mining this Strait.
During WW1, this Strait was blocked by large minefields.
I couldn't find any information about mining this area during WW2, but in any case it was possible to repeat it again at any time if the need arose.

But I was actually thinking more about the MP gameplay.
I wanted to make it easier for Germany to defend this area (no need to defend Gothenburg's shore).
But at the same time, there are all historical reasons/arguments to make this Strait "blockable".
In our multiplayer games, Germany usually creates the Great Scandinavia, therefore, the guns of the opposite Bank are also involved in blocking. But even if they were not, this Strait can be reliably mined, as it was in WW1.

It also turned out that German units are able to block this Strait, even if Frederikshavn province belongs to Denmark! (in my Mod, there is 100% historical Denmark, they are not annexed in 1939, but become not-in-war-puppet, this implemented as "military access" + exploitative trade deals for the supplying from Denmark)
Thus, as soon as any German unit arrives there, the channel becomes blocked, even if Denmark is not at war.

 

[InfArmMot]

Yes, they should be able to block the strait even if at peace with Denmark and Norway. Just like in WW1, where the British and Germans laid out 5000+ mines in Danish straits, even though we also laid out 1000+ mines.

If it should ever be of any interest to your mod, here is a list of all the mines laid out in the Seazone of Skagerak during WW2. The list includes the types of mines and the dates of deployment, plus the minefields with protective buoys.
https://bunkermuseumhanstholm.dk/en...holm-1940-1945/mine-barrage-in-the-skagerrak/

I (in my Mod, there is 100% historical Denmark, they are not annexed in 1939, but become not-in-war-puppet, this implemented as "military access" + exploitative trade deals for the supplying from Denmark)
Thus, as soon as any German unit arrives there, the channel becomes blocked, even if Denmark is not at war.

That is as historical as it can be, because according to the list, on April 9th., 1940, some 384 EMC contact mines was laid out, creating the first minefield in this seazone.

I

?

09.04.40

384 EMC

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMGER_Mines_Contact_pic.jpg

Great Mod.

My bad. Apparently The Kriegsmarine laid out the first minefield on April the 8th, 1940.

II

?

08.04.40

325 EMC