Nitra

[Parmelion]

Hello, i would like to suggest some changes to the country of Nitra and region of Slovakia so it will be more accurate and reflect historical provinces/names.

First off, province names. Some of province or town names are wrong and should be changed.

#Prov. 1772 is called Nitra when controlled by Nitra (Slovak language). Problem is that town of Nitra is nowhere in that province and the town that is shown is actually Pressburg (Prešporok, Pozsony, Bratislava). Name of province in Slovak language should be changed to Prešporok

#Prov. 154 is called Nové Zámky. Same problem as before, town of Nové Zámky is nowhere in that province. Name of province in Slovak language should be changed to Nitra. Capital of that province should be also renamed to Nitra because town of Hont (actual capital) doesn't exist.

#Prov. 4236 Trencin should be renamed to Trenčín in Slovak/Czech. Trentschin in German.

#Prov. 1318 Spis should be renamed to Spiš in Slovak/Czech and its capital to Levoča.

#Prov. 162 Zemplin should be renamed to Zemplín in Slovak/Czech and its capital to Košice.

Fort from province of Zemplin should be moved into the province of Spis. Why? Because of the Spiš castle which is one of the biggest castles in the Central Europe. It was built during the Mongol invasion of Europe and at the time it was one of the most important strategical places in the Kingdom of Hungary.

Shape of provinces should be changed, border of Pozsony/Hont province should be at the river Váh. Polish/Hungarian border should be reshaped too as this border has not changed for centuries, it remained pretty much same until the Treaty of Trianon when Poland took possesion of Northern Spiš and Upper Orava. Province of Spiš should be moved eastwards because it is not covering historical region (county) of Spiš entirely.
Capital city of Hont (Nitra) province should be moved as well as capital city of Zemplen (Zemplín) which should be moved southwards.

And one minor change, i would like to see wasteland of High Tatras. It wouldnt add anything to the gameplay but it is the highest mountain pass in the Carpathians so it would be cool to have it in game.

Current map of Nitra/Slovakia:

My suggestion:

 

[Qwerthas]

Yes, I fully agree as it would add some depth to the region and the city in Zemplin, Kassa (Košice in Slovak) should be situated in the south of the province. If they decided to implement this to the game it would also be nice to add Slovaks to the West Slavic culture group since Slovaks, Poles and Czechs are similar when it comes to languages and culture, but that's another story.

 

[Parmelion]

Well, as far as i know, Slovaks are in the Carpathian because of balance for Hungarians. But as long as they are an accepted culture (since idk when) they should be moved into the West Slavic culture group.

 

[Qwerthas]

Well, as far as i know, Slovaks are in the Carpathian because of balance for Hungarians. But as long as they are an accepted culture (since idk when) they should be moved into the West Slavic culture group.

Exactly. They used to be in the Carpathian group because there was that old culture acceptance mechanics, but now that they can start accepting them whenever they want to it is no longer necessary.

 

[Matihood1]

I don't know if Polish control of Northern Spiš should be presented this way. It looks really weird imo. I'd rather leave it as it is or find a better way to present it. Also, I don't think Paradox would agree to add a completely pointless wasteland. I agree with the other changes though, especially an update to the dynamic province names. About that, shouldn't Spis be called Spiš in Slovak? It's the current default name of this province but when it's owned by a Slovak nation, the "š" is removed.

 

[Mingmung]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hont_County

And its castle ("capital" kind of) was also called Hont.

 

[Parmelion]

I don't know if Polish control of Northern Spiš should be presented this way. It looks really weird imo. I'd rather leave it as it is or find a better way to present it. Also, I don't think Paradox would agree to add a completely pointless wasteland. I agree with the other changes though, especially an update to the dynamic province names. About that, shouldn't Spis be called Spiš in Slovak? It's the current default name of this province but when it's owned by a Slovak nation, the "š" is removed.

In the 1444-1821 Poland did not control Northern Spiš so i dont know what are you talking about. Northern Spiš and Upper Orava are a part of Hungarian kingdom in my proposed map, just as they were until 1920. My proposed border perfectly reflects historical border of Hungary and Poland.

Yes, it should be called Spiš in Slovak and yes, High Tatras wasteland would be useless.

 

[Maghrebian]

In the 1444-1821 Poland did not control Northern Spiš so i dont know what are you talking about. Northern Spiš and Upper Orava are a part of Hungarian kingdom in my proposed map, just as they were until 1920. My proposed border perfectly reflects historical border of Hungary and Poland

I assume you are a Slovak, so here you go: https://sk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spišský_záloh

 

[Parmelion]

I assume you are a Slovak, so here you go: https://sk.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spišský_záloh

Yes i know about this. It could be turned into some cool event but i dont think that Paradox will split province of Spiš into two provinces from which the new one would be really tinny. I suggested modification of border because except for this province of 13 towns border remained pretty much same.

 

[Qwerthas]

Yes i know about this. It could be turned into some cool event but i dont think that Paradox will split province of Spiš into two provinces from which the new one would be really tinny. I suggested modification of border because except for this province of 13 towns border remained pretty much same.

Yes the event could give Poland some kind of modifier.

 

[Matihood1]

In the 1444-1821 Poland did not control Northern Spiš so i dont know what are you talking about. Northern Spiš and Upper Orava are a part of Hungarian kingdom in my proposed map, just as they were until 1920. My proposed border perfectly reflects historical border of Hungary and Poland.

Yes, it should be called Spiš in Slovak and yes, High Tatras wasteland would be useless.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I thought this change on the map was to reflect something else. Everything looks good.

 

[Lehnaru]

The Polish-Hungarian/Slovak border is portrayed very poorly in game. It looks like a shapeless blob when it actuality it followed the border in the map I've linked (red and green territory was on the Hungarian side) for centuries. I agree with your province name changes, I'm not sure how they could've gotten that so wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Slovakia_borderPoland.png

 

[Parmelion]

The Polish-Hungarian/Slovak border is portrayed very poorly in game. It looks like a shapeless blob when it actuality it followed the border in the map I've linked (red and green territory was on the Hungarian side) for centuries. I agree with your province name changes, I'm not sure how they could've gotten that so wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Slovakia_borderPoland.png

You are right, the border of Poland/Upper Hungary looked like i proposed for centuries. The red areas on the map you linked were taken by Poland in 1920 i think following the treaty about the new border between Poland and Czechoslovakia.

 

[Mingmung]

No border in EU4 is perfect, there is also something called artistic liberty to make the game look better.

I, for one, wouldn't change the border at all. It would be ugly. And, it's what? Only a few inches on the Eu4-map?

 

[Parmelion]

Well yes, but this time so called artistic liberty didn't make the game look better because as mentioned before, the Polish-Hungarian border is portrayed very poorly, nothing close to actual historical border which i proposed. If they wont reshape the provinces, i would at least like to see an updated province and capital names because having a province named by a region that is not even somewhere in that province or having capital which doesn't exist is not very historically accurate.

 

[Mingmung]

Well yes, but this time so called artistic liberty didn't make the game look better because as mentioned before, the Polish-Hungarian border is portrayed very poorly, nothing close to actual historical border which i proposed. If they wont reshape the provinces, i would at least like to see an updated province and capital names because having a province named by a region that is not even somewhere in that province or having capital which doesn't exist is not very historically accurate.

Hont-castle exists, what do you mean non-existant? And have you seen the boundaries of the HRE? Or of the Hordes? None are perfect. I can get around some name changes, but this thread reeks of nationalistic nitpicking parallel to the game's standards.

The place of the city in the Nove Zamky province is correct by the way: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipeľské_Predmostie Here was the castle of Hont. Hont is the default Hungarian name of the province and its capital, it was a county during much of EU4's time. The "problem" you guys have is that although the province name changes when it comes into Slovakian hands, the capital's name and position does not. The capital is the castle and monastery of Hont (which existed, as I pointed out earlier) which is in the right position on the map.

Your last point about the fortress placement: Kassa was an important and fortified town, so it has reason enough to have a fortress, it's fine there, it doesn't have to go to some ancient anti-mongolian castle. Kassa was far more important, even one of Hungary's richer cities. Not just a castle.

So the only things you're right about are:
- Slovakian capital name for Pressburg.
- The Polish border area (which I think is nitpicking, but still historical, yes)

What's even more ironic is that the Nitra-suggestion was done by a few Slovakian fans.

 

[Qwerthas]

Hont-castle exists, what do you mean non-existant? And have you seen the boundaries of the HRE? Or of the Hordes? None are perfect. I can get around some name changes, but this thread reeks of nationalistic nitpicking parallel to the game's standards.

The place of the city in the Nove Zamky province is correct by the way: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipeľské_Predmostie Here was the castle of Hont. Hont is the default Hungarian name of the province and its capital, it was a county during much of EU4's time. The "problem" you guys have is that although the province name changes when it comes into Slovakian hands, the capital's name and position does not. The capital is the castle and monastery of Hont (which existed, as I pointed out earlier) which is in the right position on the map.

Your last point about the fortress placement: Kassa was an important and fortified town, so it has reason enough to have a fortress, it's fine there, it doesn't have to go to some ancient anti-mongolian castle. Kassa was far more important, even one of Hungary's richer cities. Not just a castle.

So the only things you're right about are:
- Slovakian capital name for Pressburg.
- The Polish border area (which I think is nitpicking, but still historical, yes)

What's even more ironic is that the Nitra-suggestion was done by a few Slovakian fans.

What's so ironic about the fact that Nitra was suggested by "a few" Slovak fans? Isn't it kinda normal that people want to see their nation in the game and even more understandable if it is historically accurate? Slovak culture is neccessary if the game is meant to be accurate and since the ancestors of Slovaks had lived in the Carpathian basin long before the Hungarian conquest and when Paradox added Slovaks to the game, they also needed a tag and Nitra was a logical choice here since it was inhabitated by Slavs that Slovaks later emerged from. Also as far as I know Slovak culture was not only wanted by Slovaks but many other people. When it comes to the question of placement of Slovak provinces - Nové Zámky is far from being correct as it is fairly close to Komárno. While I agree that Hont castle could potentially be a capital of the Hont province, it should be renamed to Nitra (Nyitra when controlled by Hungary) with the capital of, once again, Nitra. And if Nitra was released it could have its capital in there. Also Kassa (the town itself) should be situated on the south of the province instead of the north.

 

[Parmelion]

Hont-castle exists, what do you mean non-existant? And have you seen the boundaries of the HRE? Or of the Hordes? None are perfect. I can get around some name changes, but this thread reeks of nationalistic nitpicking parallel to the game's standards.

The place of the city in the Nove Zamky province is correct by the way: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipeľské_Predmostie Here was the castle of Hont. Hont is the default Hungarian name of the province and its capital, it was a county during much of EU4's time. The "problem" you guys have is that although the province name changes when it comes into Slovakian hands, the capital's name and position does not. The capital is the castle and monastery of Hont (which existed, as I pointed out earlier) which is in the right position on the map.

Your last point about the fortress placement: Kassa was an important and fortified town, so it has reason enough to have a fortress, it's fine there, it doesn't have to go to some ancient anti-mongolian castle. Kassa was far more important, even one of Hungary's richer cities. Not just a castle.

So the only things you're right about are:
- Slovakian capital name for Pressburg.
- The Polish border area (which I think is nitpicking, but still historical, yes)

What's even more ironic is that the Nitra-suggestion was done by a few Slovakian fans.

Some may indeed consider it as a nitpicking. I did not say that those changes are important nor that they will affect gameplay in some way. Borders are not perfect, but is that a reason why they can not be improved? Do you remember when Moldavia was one huge province? And now, you have 3 provinces instead of that one. It is not perfect but they have improved it so i see no reason why they shouldnt improve this too. They have created a historical game so historical correctness should be their priority number one.

Yes, Castle of Hont existed, you are right. But my problem is that 3/4 of Hont country are located outside of the province of Hont ingame. Province is covering territory of Nyitra/Nitra and Bars/Tekov much more than it is covering the territory of Hont county. Thats why i suggested it to be changed to Nyitra/Nitra (both province name and the capital city).

Capital city of Hont is in the right place just as you mentioned before. Problem here is that after Nitra takes control of that province, its name will change to Nové Zámky (i think its because of ex province of Ersekujvar (hungarian name for Nové Zámky) which was removed/renamed or whatever in the Bohemia/Hungary update. It should be updated and it is upon Paradox whether they keep name of Hont in both slovak and hungarian or they will rework the province to Nyitra/Nitra because it was much more important town and a regional center than Hont.

Im okay with your objection about fort in Kassa. But position of the capital of Zemplen/Zemplín provice is not in the right place according to its actual possition in real world. The town on map might be Eperjes/Prešov (im not sure), not Kassa/Košice. The town should be moved southwards.

 

[X-Factor]

Nice thread. Yeah Paradox is off with Dynamic province names for Nitra. As you mentioned Province with ID 1772 should be called Prešporok and the best name for province 154 is definitelly Nitra.
I like your border adjustments. it is way better. I will even adjust the southern border of Presporok province so it is not going below the Danube River. It is nitpicking but even small details makes game better.
And they improved this game a lot during the last years and they can still do this small changes.

Regarding towns: Kassa in Zemplen province should be located on the south of the province. City of Hont can be renamed to Nitra and moved as you showed..

I remember I have logged a bug report for naming discrepencies for version 1.16. You can check it here.
There is also reaction from Mr. @Trin Tragula on the topic.

 

[Trin Tragula]

First of all thank you for taking the time to suggest border revisions for the game!
These threads are a major way that things improve over time.

Now for the details (which I fear will disappoint you a bit) :
The dynamic province name of Nitra:
The way the provinces are drawn the dynamic province name Nitra is clearly in the province that it is assigned to. I would rather not redraw Hont to have it included there instead as that would mean we could no longer recreate historical borders within Slovakia in this timeline (most notably the Ottoman period). Historical owners will always take precedence over alternate history tags like the Nitran revolter so it is far more important to have Hont (roughly the hungarian counties of Hont + Bars + Ersekujvar) than it is to have a dedicated Nitra province.

Your proposed changes in the north look nice but would make Nowy Sacz an unviable province unless that too was redrawn which makes it a lower priority. It might be more likely to happen if you suggested how to solve the problems it creates in the surrounding areas (and this goes for all map propositions).
I think you will find that all over the world there are some provinces that get a few pixels at the expense of others in order to further their use as interface elements (ie they need to be clickable and it needs to be clear which provinces they border so that a player can judge army movement).
At this point that means that redrawing the northern border of Slovakia as proposed will remain a lower priority than many other parts of the world (we are talking about a few pixels here, and there are areas in much more dire need of attention).

Lastly we don't really want to add wasteland unless it actually serves a function in the game. The one suggested here would not change the access between any provinces and so will not happen