No Nuance between Fornication and Adultery

[Blatant Cake]

One thing I cannot understand is why the doctrinal laws for fornication and adultery are the same, with no way to change them. It just does not make any sense. Yes I know this is the medieval period but if you're given the chance to change, or adopt, a religion that doesn't even care about either than why can't you separate them?

Fornication is sex out of wedlock.

Adultery is sex in violation of wedlock. They are similar but different.

One is breaking a contract that is used to determined legitimacy, and inheritance. Far more serious then a tumble between the sheets. I can understand making both of them doctrinal variables. But I cannot understand why they must be connected. But I repeat myself.

It is frustrating, and completely immersion breaking. If I make adultery criminal, then when someone merely fornicates, I get some damn pop-up that forces me to imprison them or lose a piety level. If I don't make it criminal, then I become a tyrant when my spouse cheats and I lock them up for some recreational torture and death by imprisonment.

These two acts should be able to be separated under canon law. I mean there is even options between male/female. Yet nothing regarding the seriousness of the act?

 

[M22413751]

 

[Chlodio]

I on the other hand don't understand why these are crime doctrines, and not tied to gender doctrine? Get rid of fornicator-together, and make it so that under "male-dominated" male adultery is accepted while female adultery is criminalized, under "equal" both are criminalized.

 

[Blatant Cake]

That would not make much sense. When you create a new faith, there are two adultery/fornication doctrines, one specific for each sex. Domination doctrine for Male/Female/Equal is also entirely separate. What is missing is a way to differentiate between adultery and fornication.

 

[grommile]

Get rid of fornicator-together, and make it so that under "male-dominated" male adultery is accepted while female adultery is criminalized, under "equal" both are criminalized.

We have specific laws for adultery, independent of the dominance law. (Some egalitarian religions don't ban adultery at all.)

You could set up a religion where the dominant sex is expected to be meticulously faithful because they are supposed to be strong and pure, but adultery by the nondominant sex is treated as a case of "oh, they're just so horny they can't help it".

It would be a bit memelord and I'm not saying you should do it, but the option is there and I'm not in favour of removing it.

Being able to decouple fornication law from adultery law would be super neat, though. Some real societies have had a model where e.g. women aren't even supposed to get married at all until they've given birth to a living child.

 

[Vox Imperatoris]

Yes, this is nuts and also causes problems with same-sex relationships. Since there is obviously no gay marriage, all gay sex is fornication. Which makes same-sex accepted not work when adultery is not also accepted. Which is just dumb.

 

[Willy Waggler]

5 years passed, and fornication and adultery still tied together.
Shame.

 

[grommile]

5 years passed, and fornication and adultery still tied together.
Shame.

Ultimately it's a "papercut" issue. Annoying, but there's probably always going to be something more important to care about on the "fixing what's broken" side of things.

 

[Koronus]

5 years passed, and fornication and adultery still tied together.
Shame.

Eh I think it will be revamped together with a religion DLC

 

[GhostDanny]

I just wish my gay ruler, under a faith that allows it ofcourse, can be married to the opposite sex for kids.
And fool around with people of their sex without consequence, it's not like any kids come from that.

 

[CannaeCogitate]

I just wish my gay ruler, under a faith that allows it ofcourse, can be married to the opposite sex for kids.
And fool around with people of their sex without consequence, it's not like any kids come from that.

Concubinage

 

[GhostDanny]

Concubinage

Can you have same sex concubines yet?

 

[Flockingbird]

Can you have same sex concubines yet?

I don’t remember if that’s possible in vanilla games, but it looks like it’s possible using one of Pengoyo’s mods:

Steam Workshop::Celebrate Crimes

steamcommunity.com

-Adds 6 events where your same-sex concubines help you lose stress (makes traits of your same-sex concubines matter)

Mod was updated April 8, 2025, so it’s current.

Edit: is it in base game ? if you set your game rules accordingly?:

Faiths that accept homosexuality and have concubines can now take same-sex concubines (note there is a game rule to set same-sex concubines to be only if same-sex marriages is enabled). By default this affects Adamite, Hellenistic, Kushite, Orisan, Roogan, and Taosit rulers (with the AI still generally preferring opposite sex concubines).

If that’s a base-game rule and not a mod game-rule, I sure didn’t remember it.