No technological advancement in Westeros?

[Deathshead419]

You try developing advanced technology when your entire economy is dedicated to surviving ten-year-long winters.

Uh, wouldn't this have the opposite effect? The long winters would drive people to invent means of better preserving food, conserving heat in buildings, not to mention the large die off in population would create the need for labor saving devices. Nessesity is the mother of invention, and Westeros needs all the help it can get.

 

[yezhanquan]

Pretty much although it's more 1-100 year long winter.

There has not been a winter a generation long since the Long Night.

 

[zonkie]

There has not been a winter a generation long since the Long Night.

Also, the southern parts of Westeros is not that affected by winter as the North is right? Having decades of summers means good harvests and a prosperous economy? Or it might just make people lazy and content, not willing to develop things as things are already quite good. Winter might just be the motivation they need.

 

[yezhanquan]

That is true. The North always bear the brunt of winter. Consider this quote:

"Up in the hills we say that autumn kisses you, but winter $%^&s you hard. This is only autumn's kiss."

At least during the Targaryen era, there had been no shortage of warfare. Outside the reign of Jaehaerys I, Westeros had never known peace for extended periods of time.

 

[Ivashanko]

Uh, wouldn't this have the opposite effect? The long winters would drive people to invent means of better preserving food, conserving heat in buildings, not to mention the large die off in population would create the need for labor saving devices. Nessesity is the mother of invention, and Westeros needs all the help it can get.

As I said- the only real reasoning behind the lack of inventiveness is something that has to be the case anyways- the living creatures of that world (including the humans) and the living creatures of ours are not, and can not be, the same things. If they evolved they would have evolved radically differently than ours. If they were created, they must have been created to better suit their own environments. Very little would survive north of a certain latitude due to the variable winters if they variable.

 

[Dagon1]

There are some old inventions though. Winterfell has central heating via hot springs in some walls.
And as far as surviving the winter goes: They suffer as people in our world would. Thats why Winterfell has the Wintertown. They gather the people that dont live in castles at one area to manage handing out the stored food.

There is a reason some northerners are rather concerend that the war is destroying any hope for having enough food and fuel for the winter.

 

[Ivashanko]

There are some old inventions though. Winterfell has central heating via hot springs in some walls.
And as far as surviving the winter goes: They suffer as people in our world would. Thats why Winterfell has the Wintertown. They gather the people that dont live in castles at one area to manage handing out the stored food.

There is a reason some northerners are rather concerend that the war is destroying any hope for having enough food and fuel for the winter.

It is... unlikely that people would be able to come up with a food gathering system efficient enough to feed large groups of people for decades long winter. This is particularly true when it comes to the people before those described in the books- those who must have lived in tribal environments.

And it is absolutely true of most animals, and nearly all plants, that live in the north. They simply cannot be the same type of things that exist in our world- something that we would assume if those things evolved (rather than were created). The lack of technological advances might be an aspect of differing evolution...

And yes, I know that is not really the answer. The author wanted it a certain way, so damn, its that way.

 

[highfever]

There was a time in our history where human advancement didn´t have the speed we have today. I remember a history professor saying that a roman smith wouldn´t have had great difficulties in a smithy of the 14th/15th century AD.
Of course there were advancements inbetween ,even in the antiquity (this strange mechanism they found in the Aegaen sea, the alexandrian ingeneers and others as well), but e.g. the romans tended to ´only`improve their existing machines, and new inventions were often viewed as toys only.
So haing a society like the westerosian one may look a little bit strange, it´s not that implausible. And if you take into account that they have had even more difficulties than the european middle ages (hey, they have dragons, magic and this terrible long winter, the others and constant warfare all over their continent), it may look a little bit strange, but not totally improbable.

cheers
highfever

 

[locustgate]

There has not been a winter a generation long since the Long Night.

Yes but that doesn't mean it is not possible for winter to last a generation.

It is... unlikely that people would be able to come up with a food gathering system efficient enough to feed large groups of people for decades long winter. This is particularly true when it comes to the people before those described in the books- those who must have lived in tribal environments.

And it is absolutely true of most animals, and nearly all plants, that live in the north. They simply cannot be the same type of things that exist in our world- something that we would assume if those things evolved (rather than were created). The lack of technological advances might be an aspect of differing evolution...

The north have green houses, i.e. Sansa making a snow castle and using sticks to make the 'glass garden of Winterfell'. Dorne also doesn't suffer as bad as the rest of westeros. The people also preserve what 25-40% of their crops every year, atleast in the north.

By that way of thinking we are completely unrelated to those that lived during the Ice age. There was also the 'little ice age' 1550-1850, longer winters + colder years, by about -1 average.

 

[Ivashanko]

Yes but that doesn't mean it is not possible for winter to last a generation.



The north have green houses, i.e. Sansa making a snow castle and using sticks to make the 'glass garden of Winterfell'. Dorne also doesn't suffer as bad as the rest of westeros. The people also preserve what 25-40% of their crops every year, atleast in the north.

By that way of thinking we are completely unrelated to those that lived during the Ice age. There was also the 'little ice age' 1550-1850, longer winters + colder years, by about -1 average.

But winter was in general a constant, and not a variable (in other words it would last roughly the same amount of time). And during the Ice Age a lot of what was north of a certain point didn't make it except in small, isolated areas that were effectively warm spots.

 

[Galle]

Uh, wouldn't this have the opposite effect? The long winters would drive people to invent means of better preserving food, conserving heat in buildings, not to mention the large die off in population would create the need for labor saving devices. Nessesity is the mother of invention, and Westeros needs all the help it can get.

Sure, Westeros's need for technology is greater, but its ability to devote resources to technological advancement is near nonexistent. What capability for technological process Westeros does have is pretty much all channeled into things that directly help with the climate issue, and in that area they've actually made serious progress and are far in advance of the Middle Ages, Winterfell's greenhouses and the ability of the Maesters to calculate the seasons in advance when they have nothing but climate patterns to go on being the first few that come to mind.

But in other areas? Technological advancement requires that you have people with enough free time to either wonder about how the natural world works, or tinker with machines. There might be a few of these at the Citadel, but the Citadel appears to be a deeply conservative institution that likely wouldn't support this kind of activity. Everyone else has no time to dedicate to anything but survival.

Finally, there's an overlooked issue: Westeros does possess some unusually advanced "technology," but three hundred years ago, the major center of learning and technological advancement exploded, and apparently took a good portion of the laws of physics with it. All the time and effort that had been invested into such things as Valyrian steel and wildfire was rendered useless. So Westeros has actually suffered a major setback in its technological development recently, one from which it is just now recovering.

 

[Furion Matsuya]

It is... unlikely that people would be able to come up with a food gathering system efficient enough to feed large groups of people for decades long winter. This is particularly true when it comes to the people before those described in the books- those who must have lived in tribal environments.

And it is absolutely true of most animals, and nearly all plants, that live in the north. They simply cannot be the same type of things that exist in our world- something that we would assume if those things evolved (rather than were created). The lack of technological advances might be an aspect of differing evolution...

And yes, I know that is not really the answer. The author wanted it a certain way, so damn, its that way.

Remember that while the winters are long they haven't lasted for a generation in a long long long time and even a decade long winter is a it of an exception rather then the rulefrom the sound of things. A few years long definitely but a decade... that can't be that common.

Also it sounds like some places eg Dorne and Essos don't get effected quite as much by the weather.

 

[Ivashanko]

Remember that while the winters are long they haven't lasted for a generation in a long long long time and even a decade long winter is a it of an exception rather then the rulefrom the sound of things. A few years long definitely but a decade... that can't be that common.

Also it sounds like some places eg Dorne and Essos don't get effected quite as much by the weather.

Even a few years long winter would kill almost all animals that live in the north in our world (even those that live in Arctic environments oftentimes rely on spring and summer feeding to last). Those animals are, without a doubt, different from our own.

Galle is right that the explosion of Valyria probably damaged a good deal of technological advancements, but from what we've seen and read not too many non-magical ones.