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Mortimus

Sergeant
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Oct 23, 2023
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I am a big fan of playing tall, which unfortunately very strongly favours going spiritualist since you can get up to +45% ascension effects, which are not accessible to other empires
(Gestalt at least have the flexibility to take ascensionist civic without any other requirements.)
That means a fully ascended planet can have 0.15% of its empire size without a governor, with a significant output boost/upkeep reduction from the planetary designation.
It's a bit of a no-brainer for a tall build.

It would be nice to to have another way to at least get an ascension boinus as non-spiritualist individualist empires or just to drop the spiritualist requirement just to allow for a bit more variety.
 
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Personally, Ascensionists and Reckless Industrialists both struck me as having an ethic requirement just for the sake of having an ethic requirement. (You're telling me Spiritualist Purifiers would happily bomb planets into a nuclear winter, but pollution is too far?)
 
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I like playing Tall too and I sympathize with the idea of making Ascensionist a generic Civic as opposed to being a Spiritualist one. Yet I've come to find that 45% increase via Harmony + Holy Covenant is more than adequate. I mean sure another 25% is massive with respect to Tier 10 output(362.5% vs 425% or 62.5% difference), as is the Empire Size reduction(72.5% vs. 85%). Yet if your goal is to minimize Empire Size, you'll come to find you don't really need it. Pops can be completely removed outright with Under One Rule Origin -> Civil War outcome with Pacifist Harmonized Society Modifier -> Shift to Fanatic Pacifist + Egalitarian with Beacon of Liberty -> Cybernetically Ascend to get Democratic Concurrency and tack on Harmony + Domination + Psionic Theory for 100% reduction. You can optionally add Balance in the Middle(Tier 4 Greater Good) for another 10% reduction(which if you're able to pull off will permit you to forego having Domination Tradition). I'm hopeful that 4.0 will add a Genetic Ascension alternative.

Similarly to Pops, Districts can also be outright removed but I think there is a bug with Empire Size via Planetary Ascension since I don't think it factors in buffs from Harmony, Ascensionist or Holy Covenant. If it did, then all you need is Harmony Tradition finished, Tier 10 Colony(Tier 9 with Holy Covenant) and a Governor with Urbanist Destiny Trait. Both Planet Ascension and Urbanist Destiny Trait share the same Colony Scope modifier and hence additively stack so 37.5%(Urbanist Sector bonus) + 62.5%(Tier 10 Planet w/ Harmony bonus) = -100% Empire Size from Districts. With Holy Covenant, this should be achieved at Tier 9.

That just leaves Systems(which Ascension doesn't affect) and Colonies(which is already at -75% via Expansion + Imperial Prerogative). Assuming you have Harmony + Holy Covenant, the difference between having Ascensionist and not having it is basically ~3% or 0.3 Empire Size. Unless you have like 200 Colonies(which would take eons to Ascend), that's peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

The only thing where I wish I had Ascensionist is the cost of Ascending planets. That 10% really becomes impactful when you've ascended like 10-15 colonies to Tier 10 and the Unity cost starts pushing into the Millions and hence 10% saves you gobs of Unity. That is pretty much the only thing I miss and I honestly would prefer there be more Tradition sources besides Harmony(Prosperity would be an ideal candidate).
 
Personally, Ascensionists and Reckless Industrialists both struck me as having an ethic requirement just for the sake of having an ethic requirement. (You're telling me Spiritualist Purifiers would happily bomb planets into a nuclear winter, but pollution is too far?)

I mentioned this on the Dev Diary thread for Relentess Industrialists. Its not that Spiritualists are above polluting, its that they wouldn't make a Coordinated Fulfillment Center. Spiritualists don't believe happiness or fulfillment can come through owning things. That's specifically a Materialist idea.
 
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I mentioned this on the Dev Diary thread for Relentess Industrialists. Its not that Spiritualists are above polluting, its that they wouldn't make a Coordinated Fulfillment Center. Spiritualists don't believe happiness or fulfillment can come through owning things. That's specifically a Materialist idea.
What's my Corporate Hedonism Megachurch doing, then...?

Sure, that might be an interpretation of "Materialist", but it's not really used anywhere else in the game. Everywhere else Materialist is treated as just "logic over emotion, scientific method," etc. They're never shown to like owning things more than anyone else.
 
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I mentioned this on the Dev Diary thread for Relentess Industrialists. Its not that Spiritualists are above polluting, its that they wouldn't make a Coordinated Fulfillment Center. Spiritualists don't believe happiness or fulfillment can come through owning things. That's specifically a Materialist idea.
that's not what Stellaris Materialism means
 
that's not what Stellaris Materialism means

Fine, let's take another approach.

The Fanatic Materialist quote
"Although it hurts, we must grow up and put aside our outdated notions of morality. There is no 'divine spark' granting special value to a living mind. No object has any intrinsic value apart from what we choose to grant it. Let us embrace the freedom of certitude, and achieve maximum efficiency in all things!"
Coordinated Fulfillment Center quote
"Although some might deem the practices promoted in this facility to be unsafe or dangerously short-sighted, one cannot argue with the productivity numbers they produce."

Let me draw your attention to the part "No object has any intrinsic value apart from what we choose to grant it." As long as quotas are filled, and numbers go up, the value of sapient lives can be safely ignored.