All the above suggestions are sound, however, Poland is also a good place to start. Fairly small, ally in Hungary, lots of heathens, no particular enemies etc.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
To chime in again, I found the Duchy of Flanders to be a good learning opportunity:
1) The ducal provinces are filthy rich. Money is almost never a problem, so you're free to concentrate on other issues of the game, but it's still important and you'll usually be wanting to do whatever you can make them richer.
2) Small, manageable territory.
3) Because of your position (a vassal of France, situated on the northern coast between France and Germany), you're forced to expand slowly, when you expand at all, which helps you keep your reputation under control (starting in an area where you run wild among heathens has the tendency to ruin a new player's reputation).
4) You can play the inheritance game early on with the County of Hainaut (which is ruled by your duke's son) and the Duchy of Lower Lorraine (which, at least unmodded, you actually have an inheritance shot at).
5) When Germany really starts to fall apart, you have a couple of nice areas to step into and grab for yourself, in the form of the duchy of Holland and the various lands of Lower Lorraine.
Cheers.
1) The ducal provinces are filthy rich. Money is almost never a problem, so you're free to concentrate on other issues of the game, but it's still important and you'll usually be wanting to do whatever you can make them richer.
2) Small, manageable territory.
3) Because of your position (a vassal of France, situated on the northern coast between France and Germany), you're forced to expand slowly, when you expand at all, which helps you keep your reputation under control (starting in an area where you run wild among heathens has the tendency to ruin a new player's reputation).
4) You can play the inheritance game early on with the County of Hainaut (which is ruled by your duke's son) and the Duchy of Lower Lorraine (which, at least unmodded, you actually have an inheritance shot at).
5) When Germany really starts to fall apart, you have a couple of nice areas to step into and grab for yourself, in the form of the duchy of Holland and the various lands of Lower Lorraine.
Cheers.
Darknesskilla said:
Brandenburg puts you in Germany, which can be messy but also quite rewarding. A few limited wars against Pagans to your north can lead to some expansion (though the Emperor will often accept peace unless at war somewhere else, DOWing some far off minor in Iraq is a good way of ensuring this) and after expanding you can either try to capitalize on the collapse of the Holy Roman Empire (if von Franken messes up holding it together) or expand east and north to try to swallow the baltic coast, something which will most likely take you into conflict with Poland.
Landwalker said:
Just started a game as Flanders...
- After 5 years, a major german-french war
- my ruler took my regiments
- and took them again, and again
- after a while i decided to decline the request (to avoid further loyalty loss)
- my loyalty was 14% when my liege declared war... (didn't do a thing, just him using my regiments did it)
- I was forced to take Ile de France, the kings only province...
In the process, my dynasty became dutch (I had my capital in Brugges), so the french king is now Coenraad de Flanders :wacko:
The duchy is definietly is a good place to start!
I wonder is there a way to force the AI by events to relinquish your regiments? In the Byzantine/German empires you are basically never getting them back!
Perhaps a series of events such as the one I have seen already that says 'under feudal contract our vassal has fulfulled his obligations' with offers to either pay you gold, release the regiments or 'risk rebellion' also firing for the AI?
Since the AI is almost continually at war on all but Coward setting and also always skint, it ruins the game a bit ..
- Rob
Perhaps a series of events such as the one I have seen already that says 'under feudal contract our vassal has fulfulled his obligations' with offers to either pay you gold, release the regiments or 'risk rebellion' also firing for the AI?
Since the AI is almost continually at war on all but Coward setting and also always skint, it ruins the game a bit ..
- Rob
I figured I would "Veld" my pitch for Brandenburg:
- The scenario
1066. Start slow, the other scenarios start you in the middle of the action and don't give you the chance to get to know the game. Also, I like GCs.
- Why is it a good starting country
Isolated geographically from obvious wars and protected by being a member of a massive empire. Brandenburg can avoid getting entangled in the German civil war until Germany is losing and then use the chance to expand
- Possible strategy/goals
First, expand along the Baltic coast through Pommerania and Pomeralia. This will allow you to capture Danzig, a good trading town with plenty of sea lanes. Try to maintain good relations with the Emperor so you can stay out of the civil war and allow him to use your troops while setting army funding to zero. Avoid war with the Poles, usually the poles will give Marienburg to the Teutonic Knights anyway. In one of my games, the Teutons got Marienburg, marched all the way to the holy land to take Jerusalem, and then lost a war to some emir and gave him Marienburg as compensation.
If the HRE collapses enough, stop accepting the Emperors demand for your troops and start using them yourself to force vassalize (careful with the prestige hits) or annex (careful with the reputation) neighbouring counts.
A target of opportunity can be Gotland, the larger island off the swedish coast, which often breaks free from Sweden as a Republic. As a feudal lord I feel that my way of life is threatened by republics so I tend to kill them asap. My recommendation is to annex and create a Bishopric or County of Gotland instead of vassalizing the Republic.
- Things you have to look out for when playing that specific country
Since Germany has elective law, there is a risk that you become King of Germany. This is especially true if you manage to expand alot and secure more Duke titles. Some of the southern Dukes are pretty powerful though, so the threat is not imminent. I've had three duke titles (Brandenburg, Pommerania, Pomeralia) and still only been third in succession. If you become King, the nature of the game just changed enormously and your main task is now fire fighting the rebellions around the empire. With strong Staden blood on the throne it is possible to hold the empire together but its not trivial. Keep an eye on the succssion list though and remember that succession in CK is by man, not by title (as in reality, where personal unions have broken because the succession law of the two thrones were different). This means that if you are King of Germany when you die and your successor is not of your blood, it's game over.
- The scenario
1066. Start slow, the other scenarios start you in the middle of the action and don't give you the chance to get to know the game. Also, I like GCs.
- Why is it a good starting country
Isolated geographically from obvious wars and protected by being a member of a massive empire. Brandenburg can avoid getting entangled in the German civil war until Germany is losing and then use the chance to expand
- Possible strategy/goals
First, expand along the Baltic coast through Pommerania and Pomeralia. This will allow you to capture Danzig, a good trading town with plenty of sea lanes. Try to maintain good relations with the Emperor so you can stay out of the civil war and allow him to use your troops while setting army funding to zero. Avoid war with the Poles, usually the poles will give Marienburg to the Teutonic Knights anyway. In one of my games, the Teutons got Marienburg, marched all the way to the holy land to take Jerusalem, and then lost a war to some emir and gave him Marienburg as compensation.
If the HRE collapses enough, stop accepting the Emperors demand for your troops and start using them yourself to force vassalize (careful with the prestige hits) or annex (careful with the reputation) neighbouring counts.
A target of opportunity can be Gotland, the larger island off the swedish coast, which often breaks free from Sweden as a Republic. As a feudal lord I feel that my way of life is threatened by republics so I tend to kill them asap. My recommendation is to annex and create a Bishopric or County of Gotland instead of vassalizing the Republic.
- Things you have to look out for when playing that specific country
Since Germany has elective law, there is a risk that you become King of Germany. This is especially true if you manage to expand alot and secure more Duke titles. Some of the southern Dukes are pretty powerful though, so the threat is not imminent. I've had three duke titles (Brandenburg, Pommerania, Pomeralia) and still only been third in succession. If you become King, the nature of the game just changed enormously and your main task is now fire fighting the rebellions around the empire. With strong Staden blood on the throne it is possible to hold the empire together but its not trivial. Keep an eye on the succssion list though and remember that succession in CK is by man, not by title (as in reality, where personal unions have broken because the succession law of the two thrones were different). This means that if you are King of Germany when you die and your successor is not of your blood, it's game over.
Last edited:
Have to agree; been playing as the de Hautevilles for almost 100 years now and still loving it. Started out consolidating the mainland, and began a conquest of the island. My Duke died during the campaign early on, but what a successor! He managed to take all of the island, made himself King of Sicily ("Je suis la Sicile!") and then took the Duchy of Tunis. His older son was merely a place holder, but his younger son (the third King of Sicily) consolidated much of Africa and even liberated the Holy Land and created the Kingdom of Jerusalem! All three kings have been Beatified as well. Currently on the fourth King of Sicily who's completed the conquest of Africa and named himself King, conquered 2/3rds of Corsica, and defeated an attempt by Germany to take the Duchy of Apulia.
This game has been awesome, complete with internal conflict amongst the various sides of the de Hauteville family who arose out of the orginal collection of brothers. My only concern: the current King's succession is in jeopardy! He only has bastards and they're still too young to demand recognition, and their dad is already 50yo. The de Hauteville line might be reduced to mere Dukes in the Kingdom(s) they once forged.
But yeah, it's a fun scenario to play, but its a bit too easy at times. Great scenario to learn on though.
*bump*
And also, wanted to ask about other options regarding Welsh starting realms. I know Gwynedd has been advertised often and passionately, but I feel like more of a challenge than controlling a 3-province duchy in a 6- or 7-province kingdom would give. I was considering the Count of Glamorgan (also holds the neighbouring English County), but not the Duchy of Deheubarth. What about the northern Welsh Counts?
My current Aquitaine WC is going slowly, so i've started thinking about another game to start for a change in pace. Was thinking of aiming for a Celtic Empire in DVIP, with England probably cut to size a bit but independent. So Wales, then Ireland, Scotland, Brittany, and maybe Leon, I think DVIP has Galician culture modded in. Plus Duchy of Cornwall.
And also, wanted to ask about other options regarding Welsh starting realms. I know Gwynedd has been advertised often and passionately, but I feel like more of a challenge than controlling a 3-province duchy in a 6- or 7-province kingdom would give. I was considering the Count of Glamorgan (also holds the neighbouring English County), but not the Duchy of Deheubarth. What about the northern Welsh Counts?
My current Aquitaine WC is going slowly, so i've started thinking about another game to start for a change in pace. Was thinking of aiming for a Celtic Empire in DVIP, with England probably cut to size a bit but independent. So Wales, then Ireland, Scotland, Brittany, and maybe Leon, I think DVIP has Galician culture modded in. Plus Duchy of Cornwall.
There's no galician culture, but I have tagged Galicia as portuguese.
As for Wales, the English Map Mod I use in DVIP:Wales extends Wales to multiple provinces and duchies so it becomes a lot more fun to play.
As for Wales, the English Map Mod I use in DVIP:Wales extends Wales to multiple provinces and duchies so it becomes a lot more fun to play.
I enjoy playing as Duke of the Western Isles and trying to conquer Ireland. Though, in my game, the Western Isles had their income boosted from 2 to 4, (resulting in a base 2.4 instead of 1.2), since in real life, the territory encompassed the entire Inner and Outer Hebrides, all the way down the western coast of Scotland and beyond. The Lords of The Isles were once the most powerful and influential landholders in Scotland, and they played a huge role in Ireland, Wales and Northern England.
IRL, the ruler that starts out as Duke there, Crovan, actually created the Kingdom of Man and the Isles in 1079, after he conquered the Isle of Man. Orkney and Shetland were vassals. This kingdom persisted until the middle 13th century. I also turned him into a stubborn tough_soldier, since gruff_diplomat does not represent a man who tried three times to conquer Man, one after the other, until he finally succeeded.
Sadly, in the game, all of central and western, and in some bizarre cases, even eastern scotland, are combined into the same province. The Hebrides are kinda there, but they were made to look more like horizontal peninsulas, and combined with the central provinces. In fact, Scotland is probably the least well done area on the map. (Not to mention the silliness of having 'Ross' be part of the duchy of the Western Isles).
So setting it to 4 instead of 2, represents the area of territory, practically half the size of Scotland itself, that is left out of the game up there, and makes it at least on par with the city of Dublin, which they often conquered.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Kingdom_of_Mann_and_the_Isles-en.svg
As you can see, the Paradox map has only the Outer Hebrides, and leaves the even more important and wealthy Inner Hebrides entirely absent...Despite having islands like Corfu, Naxos, Lesbos, etc, elsewhere. And even tinier and poorer ones in the Baltic.
IRL, the ruler that starts out as Duke there, Crovan, actually created the Kingdom of Man and the Isles in 1079, after he conquered the Isle of Man. Orkney and Shetland were vassals. This kingdom persisted until the middle 13th century. I also turned him into a stubborn tough_soldier, since gruff_diplomat does not represent a man who tried three times to conquer Man, one after the other, until he finally succeeded.
Sadly, in the game, all of central and western, and in some bizarre cases, even eastern scotland, are combined into the same province. The Hebrides are kinda there, but they were made to look more like horizontal peninsulas, and combined with the central provinces. In fact, Scotland is probably the least well done area on the map. (Not to mention the silliness of having 'Ross' be part of the duchy of the Western Isles).
So setting it to 4 instead of 2, represents the area of territory, practically half the size of Scotland itself, that is left out of the game up there, and makes it at least on par with the city of Dublin, which they often conquered.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Kingdom_of_Mann_and_the_Isles-en.svg
As you can see, the Paradox map has only the Outer Hebrides, and leaves the even more important and wealthy Inner Hebrides entirely absent...Despite having islands like Corfu, Naxos, Lesbos, etc, elsewhere. And even tinier and poorer ones in the Baltic.
Where's the love for the Nation of Paradox... SWEDEN?
Sweden is my favorite nation (may are close to Sweden tho) for the reasons stated above. It's just bigger and more powerful than Denmark and, more importantly, there's more room to expand. Finish claiming the natural areas of Sweden, grab some Baltic stuff before the Poles/Byzantines can get up there, grab Finland, and, before you know it, you're a loved and feared nation!
No powerful nations as natural enemies. Sure, you're far from The Holy Land, so there's that to keep in mind, but it's superb for learning if that's what you want.
Croatia. Situated between two great Empires it maintained its independence and has enormous potential for flexibility, a perfect mix of two worlds. Weak royal power has made kingdom a secondary player for centuries, but recently it has started expansion towards independent Sclavinias of the East. But does the future hold? Chip away at Byzantine border until the Constantinople itself is threathened? Subjugate Pecheneg tribes and spread towards and past Dniester? Involve yourself in inter struggles of neighbouring Hungary? Turn yourself west and spread into rebelling Italian cities? Or do everything of the above.
I always play Many kings, independent dukes (i fixed it to fit for DVIP too.. Made all the duchies match and made the culture match their areas kinda)
For that I always play as Holland (To conquer the lowlands and then play into EU3 and go around colonizing)
or
Duke of thrace. Hard to create the byzantine empire especially where everyone is as wealthy as you or compete with you for asia minor.
Europe is never recognizable this way and no game is the same
For that I always play as Holland (To conquer the lowlands and then play into EU3 and go around colonizing)
or
Duke of thrace. Hard to create the byzantine empire especially where everyone is as wealthy as you or compete with you for asia minor.
Europe is never recognizable this way and no game is the same
Duchy of Alexandretta is a good one. You're a very good line of Dukes underneath an idiot emperor who constantly wants your regiments to sack the living crap out of disloyal vassals in Greece/ Fight the Suenik Turks who are advancing quickly into Turkey.
Tips:
-Get big quick. Take as much heathen land as your ruler can support, and give land to your vassals in order to increase your power and contribution to the King. If you get big enough quickly enough, you'll eventually be so powerful that the Imperial Armies will not attempt to attack you, should you decide to not give him your regiments.
-Develop your family links. The more Komnesus' in the world, the better. Marry in with the Greeks across the way, and establish yourself in Italy.
- Don't give land to heathen courtiers, because chances are you'll lose it eventually through inheritance.
-Get yourself into the kings seat quickly, so as to put the Imperial armies to better use fighting the Sueniks than sacking the Kingdom of Hungary/Kingdom of Croatia into fine paste.
-Getting the Count of Byzantion title will majorly increase your budget should you end up falling out of power.The Queen of the Cities is very rich.
-Wait for the vassals of the European Crusaders to declare independence before crushing them. It'll happen eventually.
Tips:
-Get big quick. Take as much heathen land as your ruler can support, and give land to your vassals in order to increase your power and contribution to the King. If you get big enough quickly enough, you'll eventually be so powerful that the Imperial Armies will not attempt to attack you, should you decide to not give him your regiments.
-Develop your family links. The more Komnesus' in the world, the better. Marry in with the Greeks across the way, and establish yourself in Italy.
- Don't give land to heathen courtiers, because chances are you'll lose it eventually through inheritance.
-Get yourself into the kings seat quickly, so as to put the Imperial armies to better use fighting the Sueniks than sacking the Kingdom of Hungary/Kingdom of Croatia into fine paste.
-Getting the Count of Byzantion title will majorly increase your budget should you end up falling out of power.The Queen of the Cities is very rich.
-Wait for the vassals of the European Crusaders to declare independence before crushing them. It'll happen eventually.
Some good hints and strategy advice, for sure, but "good starting country"? That would be as far away from the Seljuks as possible - and not including being responsible for handling the Byzantine Empire, and defending it against Alp Arslan. Any new player should stay far away.
Honestly depends. If the Seljuks give up the ghost and collapse early, the game becomes easy until the Mongols show up way later. If they stay coherent and starting beating on the Byzantines, things get tough. It gives you a time limit to learn the basics of the game and to get your act together. It also allows you to learn all about making a kingdom for yourself, should you decide to go the disloyal vassal route. Essentially, it's just a good position over all to learn about managing a kingdom.
Probably was mentioned before but ireland is a great place too espacially starting as laigin or munster which is slightly richer
I started with laigin and with a good king and some bold moves united ireland by 1100 then went to spain and africa
I started with laigin and with a good king and some bold moves united ireland by 1100 then went to spain and africa
Yeah, Ireland is lots of fun. Starting as Count of Ulaid is good. First to unite Ulster, then the world! Seriously though, it's a good slow start with appropriate challenges and learning curves for beginners. Although you are a count you are independent and surrounded by independent counts. First form the Duchy, then the Kingdom and the world's your oyster. In the meantime figure out the mechanics of dynasty matters, conquest vs. diplomacy, the value of gold and patience... fun will be had.
I started with Duchy of Apulia also and found it to be a fun time, ended up taking most of Italy, Western, and Northern Africa, and Southern Spain. Game is on pause cause I wanted to try becoming King of Italy as Duke of Lombardia. Holy crap is that game interesting, as King of Italy my kingdom and has shrunk and expanded repeatedly thanks to how hated my dynasty has been at times but it was worth it cause now I have all of Italy, minus the papacy and I'm only at tarnished so no more spending thousands of gold on vassals. Lombardia is definitely a challenge but fun.
but it was worth it cause now I have all of Italy, minus the papacy and I'm only at tarnished so no more spending thousands of gold on vassals. Lombardia is definitely a challenge but fun.