Nubia/Axum

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Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
I see your point. I just think that Mohammedian has been the English standard for a thousand years, and now it has changed for no good reason.

I am sure Buddhists are insulted by the idea that our word means that they worship Buddha.

My point is that the calls for the word Muslim is inane. Marxists do not worship Marx, Trotskyites, Maoists.....

I disagree, I believe it's a very good reason. Even though you rightly point out the examples of Marxism and so on, these are not the examples that the Muslim, and indeed the average non-Muslim will think of when hearing the term "Mohammedan." The comparison that will be immediately evident is that of Christianity, given the shared history and beliefs of the two religions (Islam having taken much of Christianity and Judeaism into itself). Thus the term "Mohammedan," even if it does not directly mean that the followers worship Mohammed, certainly implies that they do so just by this association.

 

[CCR_of_the_Code]

But Jews do not worship Judaea.

 

[unmerged(8913)]

Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
But Jews do not worship Judaea.

Which does absolutely nothing to negate the association with Christianity....


edit: and, I'm not entirely sure of this, but isn't the term Judaea a variant on their term for "God" two thousand years ago? If so, that would further strengthen my argument.

 

[CCR_of_the_Code]

I dont think so. That would mean that the name of the land was the same as the name for god, meaning every time you mention your homeland you are spitting on a comandment.

 

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Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
I dont think so. That would mean that the name of the land was the same as the name for god, meaning every time you mention your homeland you are spitting on a comandment.

Well, if I recall correctly, the naming of Judea is originally related to the Roman name for the province of that area, so I would think it would be at least possible that said name would be based on their religion - the Romans wouldn't have cared about this while naming a province. I did a quick google search, and I couldn't find anything definitive on the original etymology of "Jew" or "Judaism" though, so on this point we really don't know one way or the other....

However, as I said before, this whole line of discussion....

....does absolutely nothing to negate the association with Christianity.

You're addressing a peripheral point with this. The central point here is that, as I said before, "The comparison that will be immediately evident is that of Christianity, given the shared history and beliefs of the two religions. Thus the term "Mohammedan," even if it does not directly mean that the followers worship Mohammed, certainly implies that they do so just by this association."

 

[Vandelay]

Judah (= "Praised" or "Celebrated") is named after the Hebrew tribe of that name. The Kingdom of Judah is first mentioned by non-Biblical sources in Assyrian texts of the 9th century BC.

The name of the tribe and kingdom is the basis of the words Judaism and Jews (as after the loss of the Ten Tribes only Judah and Benjamin remained - and Judah was by far the greatest).

Mohammedan is clearly insulting. It´s like referring to Christians as Polytheists or Idolaters.

Cheers,
Vandelay

 

[CCR_of_the_Code]

Mohammedan is clearly insulting.

It is more accurate, more sensible, and less insulting when thought of.
Manicheans never worshiped Manes, they just mentioned his name quite a bit...compararble to Islam (or, if you are me, Mohammedisim).

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
It is more accurate, more sensible, and less insulting when thought of.
Manicheans never worshiped Manes, they just mentioned his name quite a bit...compararble to Islam (or, if you are me, Mohammedisim).

I'd respect it when they say themself that they find it insulting though...

 

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Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
It is more accurate, more sensible, and less insulting when thought of.
Manicheans never worshiped Manes, they just mentioned his name quite a bit...compararble to Islam (or, if you are me, Mohammedisim).

It's less insulting because you say so?


If you plan on continuing this line of argument (citing other religions which do not worship that which they are named after), it really won't be very compelling unless you address my earlier point -

"The comparison that will be immediately evident is that of Christianity, given the shared history and beliefs of the two religions. Thus the term "Mohammedan," even if it does not directly mean that the followers worship Mohammed, certainly implies that they do so just by this association."

 

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Originally posted by Vandelay
Judah (= "Praised" or "Celebrated") is named after the Hebrew tribe of that name. The Kingdom of Judah is first mentioned by non-Biblical sources in Assyrian texts of the 9th century BC.

The name of the tribe and kingdom is the basis of the words Judaism and Jews (as after the loss of the Ten Tribes only Judah and Benjamin remained - and Judah was by far the greatest).

Thanks, I had only been able to find the etymology back to Latin....

 

[CCR_of_the_Code]

Marcus Valerius, you have a point, but realize that
A) Mohammedian was the European standard for a thousand years.
B) All English names for religions outside of Hinduisim because it does not have a single founder are named after thier historical founders. Mohammed was the historical founder of Islam or Mohammadisim.

 

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Originally posted by CCR_of_the_Code
A) Mohammedian was the European standard for a thousand years.

So what? How many Muslims were living in England over most of those thousand years? Just because something was once the standard doesn't mean it's not disrespectful and insulting. There's a certain word that starts with an "N" which used to be the standard to describe African Americans. Should we go back to that word just because it used to be the standard, regardless of how insulting it is? In any case, the standard has since changed. To try to return to the general use of "Mohammedans" for Muslims seems to me to be little more than tilting at windmills....

B) All English names for religions outside of Hinduisim because it does not have a single founder are named after thier historical founders. Mohammed was the historical founder of Islam or Mohammadisim.

I'd wager that those names also have something to do with what the adherents of the religion call themselves....