Observations from the stream

[cKnoor]

Please pardon me for saying that, but in my opinion the recent stream didn't do the game justice it deserves. I understand that the main purpose was to highlight new features, but please don't assume up front, that people cannot comprehend a normal gameplay. There was no need to run the game on v. slow for third of it's duration. RTS arena is very small and struggles at the moment and there were players from other games present during the stream, that we really need here. I believe, that even at this stage, the game is able to do just fine without babysitting. So for the next stream, if we could please have a game/map preloaded before the stream launches, and a normal gameplay would be most welcome. You can always pre-record it, just in case more of those "hot codes"

I do apologise for harsh words, but it just saddens us to see all the unjustified forum threads poping up around.

Here's the thing, running it faster so that RTS players that are already familiar with the game type would alienate those that might be interested that haven't played a similar game recently. And to get a large playerbase those are the players we need to reach. We'll get to fast gameplay with more strategy focused as we get closer to release, but right now we can't afford to alienate those that may not understand the core mechanics of the game. And I can see that in some cases we did push how fun the frontline mechanic is as some viewers have commented that they want it removed. I take that as me not explaining it well enough, and a case of us going slightly to fast over certain issues.
Which incidentally is why we skip building battlegroups entirely, as that is so integral that it needs its own stream to explain.

While replays may work for later streams I don't think it's a good idea for early streams, as that would make us unable to focus on questions raise by the chat, and it can also interrupt the flow of a conversation on stream. So for those reasons I prefer live gameplay.

Personally, I'd prefer if they took request and then pre recorded a game of the most requested things (within reason of course, no 20 King Tiger roflstomp) and then commentated on the replay. I watched half the live stream before I got really bored and just exited out and didn't watch the rest. Thankfully, I got to play in the beta, so it doesn't crap on my thoughts of the game, but if this was all I had to go by, I would be disappointed.

Pre-recording a video would kind of go counter to a live stream of the game, but it is definitely something I want to look into for future coverage. But if/when we do replay casts of games, it will probably not be live but on Youtube. And like I mentioned (I think it was in this thread) if you played in the Beta then this stream wasn't for you. I am glad you watched and have comments. But the focus is to get those that don't know the game on board, and for that you really can't go too quick.

That said, that's for the comments both of you, I do appreciate feedback, even if I sometimes disagree with it.

 

[Destraex]

I think you guys are overthinking it. As far as I'm concerned there's two solutions:
A) after disembarking troops, the truck becomes AI controlled and RTBs
B) Trucks cannot receive orders to drive beyond the front line.

Both of these would work pretty well imo.

I keep trying to ask you what you would do with the transports needed to tow static weapons around?

 

[Destraex]

cknoor, I'd like it explained further where infantry can take cover and how they physically do it outside of buildings. I want to know if infantry conform to the terrain when taking cover or just remain standing. Do infantry in fact hide behind terrain such as walls? I really want to know if eugen got over the circle of infantry standing in the middle of a green field getting shot at in circle formation. Company of heroes and me of war are good examples of smaller scale games that do this, it would be amazing frankly forna game of sd44s scale but I have to ask.

 

[safe-keeper]

cknoor, I'd like it explained further where infantry can take cover and how they physically do it outside of buildings. I want to know if infantry conform to the terrain when taking cover or just remain standing. Do infantry in fact hide behind terrain such as walls? I really want to know if eugen got over the circle of infantry standing in the middle of a green field getting shot at in circle formation. Company of heroes and me of war are good examples of smaller scale games that do this, it would be amazing frankly forna game of sd44s scale but I have to ask.

Pretty much a must for a game of this kind. Although the AI units in COH could be frustratingly stupid ("you explicitly told us to hide behind these sandbags? Got it, Safe, we'll just form up around it, that's what you really meant, right :v?"), the devs sure had the right idea. With all the attention to detail in Steel Division, like low stone walls along roads, I'd be really disappointed if troops didn't take cover dynamically.

I keep trying to ask you what you would do with the transports needed to tow static weapons around?

Speaking only for myself, I would handle this exactly like trucks needed for motorised infantry.

 

[Fonz]

While replays may work for later streams I don't think it's a good idea for early streams, as that would make us unable to focus on questions raise by the chat, and it can also interrupt the flow of a conversation on stream. So for those reasons I prefer live gameplay.

Pre-recording a video would kind of go counter to a live stream of the game, but it is definitely something I want to look into for future coverage. But if/when we do replay casts of games, it will probably not be live but on Youtube. And like I mentioned (I think it was in this thread) if you played in the Beta then this stream wasn't for you. I am glad you watched and have comments. But the focus is to get those that don't know the game on board, and for that you really can't go too quick.

What about having someone else in PDX to be the opponent instead of an AI? In the stream most mechanics were kinda cut short mid-explaination despite on very slow speed because the AI was playing to win and constantly pushed on all fronts. Which meant you guys kept jumping all over the map to deal with a single unit.
Instead, having someone like LetterZ or somebody playing the enemy team would allow you guys to script/plan the general flow and you guys can actually show off gameplay with the enemy units involved with no time constraints, and react to chat as well. That way we as viewers would get focused and spectacular gameplay/explosions while you guys can take as long as you need to show off what you want. Instead of having the AI distracting you guys with like a jeep or something across the map every 5 minutes, and you guys end up having to use very slow speed which makes the game look boring when it isn't.

 

[cKnoor]

cknoor, I'd like it explained further where infantry can take cover and how they physically do it outside of buildings. I want to know if infantry conform to the terrain when taking cover or just remain standing. Do infantry in fact hide behind terrain such as walls? I really want to know if eugen got over the circle of infantry standing in the middle of a green field getting shot at in circle formation. Company of heroes and me of war are good examples of smaller scale games that do this, it would be amazing frankly forna game of sd44s scale but I have to ask.

We kind of covered this in the stream in that your cursor shows the type of cover the unit will get, but we'll definitely cover it in more detail in later streams.

What about having someone else in PDX to be the opponent instead of an AI? In the stream most mechanics were kinda cut short mid-explaination despite on very slow speed because the AI was playing to win and constantly pushed on all fronts. Which meant you guys kept jumping all over the map to deal with a single unit.
Instead, having someone like LetterZ or somebody playing the enemy team would allow you guys to script/plan the general flow and you guys can actually show off gameplay with the enemy units involved with no time constraints, and react to chat as well. That way we as viewers would get focused and spectacular gameplay/explosions while you guys can take as long as you need to show off what you want. Instead of having the AI distracting you guys with like a jeep or something across the map every 5 minutes, and you guys end up having to use very slow speed which makes the game look boring when it isn't.

Like we mentioned on stream MP stream will show up later on, in fact we'll probably see some next week. But we can't jump straight into MP if viewers don't know the basics of the interface. Having a second player control the other side would lead to people complaining about us not playing against the AI. Because that's a thing. I also wanted to make sure we could showcase how much of a reactionary game this is once you get into the game. So having the battle be to scripted I don't think would have worked as well.

 

[Tankhunter__]

cknoor, I'd like it explained further where infantry can take cover and how they physically do it outside of buildings. I want to know if infantry conform to the terrain when taking cover or just remain standing. Do infantry in fact hide behind terrain such as walls? I really want to know if eugen got over the circle of infantry standing in the middle of a green field getting shot at in circle formation. Company of heroes and me of war are good examples of smaller scale games that do this, it would be amazing frankly forna game of sd44s scale but I have to ask.

I think infantry were able to take cover in an orchard or field as well in the live stream. They also mentioned that orchard/field not being as useful for tanks' cover.

 

[wingren013]

tank combat seems like a step back from RD. I guess the balance is still WIP but it very much seems like the meta will revolve around numbers.

and artillery seems wonky balance wise.

 

[MTB1995]

Pre-recording a video would kind of go counter to a live stream of the game, but it is definitely something I want to look into for future coverage. But if/when we do replay casts of games, it will probably not be live but on Youtube. And like I mentioned (I think it was in this thread) if you played in the Beta then this stream wasn't for you. I am glad you watched and have comments. But the focus is to get those that don't know the game on board, and for that you really can't go too quick.

That said, that's for the comments both of you, I do appreciate feedback, even if I sometimes disagree with it.

If you prefer live streams, might I suggest someone else commentate on what the player is doing, or at least have the player focus on the gameplay as much as possible. For me, good gameplay makes me want to watch and play the game that's being showed off.

 

[Destraex]

tthat means good animations

We kind of covered this in the stream in that your cursor shows the type of cover the unit will get, but we'll definitely cover it in more detail in later streams.



Like we mentioned on stream MP stream will show up later on, in fact we'll probably see some next week. But we can't jump straight into MP if viewers don't know the basics of the interface. Having a second player control the other side would lead to people complaining about us not playing against the AI. Because that's a thing. I also wanted to make sure we could showcase how much of a reactionary game this is once you get into the game. So having the battle be to scripted I don't think would have worked as well.

thx cknoor. I will have to watch it again. But I am particularly interested in how the men's animations reflect they have taken cover. Not the symbology. I will be looking at the men. Looking at symbols is only for when I am zoomed out a fair way.
I very much enjoy zooming in when I can to see the battles and enjoy the drama in any game when I can. T
hat means good animations that show the battle as more than symbols.

 

[RoyalColor]

And I can see that in some cases we did push how fun the frontline mechanic is as some viewers have commented that they want it removed. I take that as me not explaining it well enough, and a case of us going slightly to fast over certain issues.

On the contrary. You were trying to show it off on over exaggerated examples. You kind of played the way to force the a pocket, which in normal gameplay happens extremely rarely. So that's actually giving the false impression and some people already are voicing their concerns over issues that don't even exist, but were showcased on the stream.

Frontline is a brilliant mechanic and that's almost unanimous opinion among people who played the game. But it's inner workings are also very difficult to explain without actually trying the game.

Nevertheless, wish you guys all the best and hope for the best!

 

[STGeorge]

I always find these paradox streams a bit of a waste of time, they seem to try too hard to be witty and comedic rather than just concentrating on giving us the features and facts.... for me Programmers are never the funniest guys.

I hope that the next streams are more informative.....

 

[cKnoor]

If you prefer live streams, might I suggest someone else commentate on what the player is doing, or at least have the player focus on the gameplay as much as possible. For me, good gameplay makes me want to watch and play the game that's being showed off.

Once again, to show gameplay you first have to explain gameplay. Which is much harder with someone just playing the game.

On the contrary. You were trying to show it off on over exaggerated examples. You kind of played the way to force the a pocket, which in normal gameplay happens extremely rarely.

The amount of pocket in gameplay really depends on divisions and battlegroup build.

I always find these paradox at bit of a waste of time, they seem to try too hard to be witty and comedic rather than just concentrating on giving us the features and facts.... for me Programmers are never the funniest guys.

I hope that the next streams are more informative.....

I'll have you know that we have the funniest programmers in the biz, and that we rarely have them on stream. You're more likely to see a game director, QA, community people or producers.

 

[Gr1pen]

Okay, from watching the livestream I must say it's more arcade than I thought and I absolutely hate the fact that the frontline will spoil where enemy units are moving in. I'll buy it anyway I know that but I think I'll soon be moving back to the Close Combat etc. games again.
Hope there will be a checkbox that makes it easy to turn the visibility of the frontline off, that would be great.

 

[Person012345]

And it's weird that an AT gun is entirely "packed" in that small truck instead of being towed behind it when entering the battlefield.

This honestly bothers me MORE than the magic disappearing trucks. At least with the trucks disappearing its like, ok, they drove home even if I didn't see it (though I would prefer that they actually physically automatically left the way they came in rather than disappearing) but I am sorely disappointed that guns are not towed behind the trucks.

 

[molnibalage]

Hope there will be a checkbox that makes it easy to turn the visibility of the frontline off, that would be great.

It would be strange because seeing the frontline is part of the gameplay mechanics. It would be similar turning off in WG:RD the display the occpudies state of zones...

 

[Bennyy]

How about having it only appear at full zoom out? or only on the minimap?

 

[C.N.]

Isn't the frontline also kind of part of the victory mechanic, or did I understand it wrong? As I got it, the one who occupies more than 50% of the map the longest wins?

 

[Killertomato]

It would be strange because seeing the frontline is part of the gameplay mechanics. It would be similar turning off in WG:RD the display the occpudies state of zones...

You could actually turn off the zones in EE.

I mean, nobody did because you needed to see them to play, but still.

 

[pras]

Map looks quite unbalanced. Blue guys have all the bigger towns on their half.

Deployment phase waypoints finally here. Nice.

Micromanaging trucks might be too much. I like the abstraction. Makes you focus on tactics not logistics.

Game mode is great only thing I am concerned is if every unit can push the front-line like that. Sure that is the core idea behind front lines, however, I think all units in game shouldn't be able to do that. Or better, there should be some ninja SF units for sneaky infiltration.
How are we supposed to make ambushes if they know we are there?

Smoke trail of artillery shells is ridiculously long and it stays visible for too long imo. It looks like Zippos (flamethrowing IFV) firing in wargame.

UI looks nice, I only hope it is collapsible and resizeable.