Oct10B: Ai Negative Prestige Cycle

[Duuk]

The AI tends to make peace with pagans (as a liege) and then get back into war with them again.

This results in many, many AI leaders having negative prestige.

The AI needs to take truces into account MUCH more heavily when it decides to go to war.

 

[Grosshaus]

Are you certain the truces are the problem? Earlier the problem seemed to be vassals and allies not suing peace at the same time meaning realms were forced to honore vassalages or alliances even if they just sued peace.

 

[Kliwarrior]

This is because vassals don't have any truce penalty if the peace is signed by the liege, and they should have.
Moreover, AI seems to me getting truce even if it could "steal the siege" from the vassal and gain the province.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Well if it would have a truce, it shouldn't be as long and/or as big a penatly for breaking it if its because of a leige.

 

[Duuk]

I watched the AI (hovered over their character sheet).

It's a big problem.

Duke Bob the Smurf makes peace with the Evil Muslims. Peace is forced. Muslim Dude doesn't have a truce with little dudes and DoW's one of Bob's vassals. Bob is dragged back into the war and drags all his vassals in. All the vassals that got a truce before now take a 100 prestige hit.

When you make peace with a liege, you should be considered to have a truce with all his vassals.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I watched the AI (hovered over their character sheet).

It's a big problem.

Duke Bob the Smurf makes peace with the Evil Muslims. Peace is forced. Muslim Dude doesn't have a truce with little dudes and DoW's one of Bob's vassals. Bob is dragged back into the war and drags all his vassals in. All the vassals that got a truce before now take a 100 prestige hit.

When you make peace with a liege, you should be considered to have a truce with all his vassals.

As i said, since there is no way to make seperate peace for vassals unlike EU2, the truces shouldn't be of the same consiqunce for vassals.

 

[Duuk]

As i said, since there is no way to make seperate peace for vassals unlike EU2, the truces shouldn't be of the same consiqunce for vassals.

You're not getting it.

The vassal isn't the issue.

Assume the AI King of England makes peace with the AI King of France. Hence, all their vassals are now at peace.

The Duke of York declares war on the Duke of Toulouse. This drags France and England back into a war, and they lose prestige.

The game engine needs to either 1) not give the prestige hit for responding to a vassal's call for aid, or 2) enforce the peace prestige hit (and the AI taking it into account!) for every vassal when the liege makes peace. Shouldn't be too hard. Instead of (add_truce ENG = FRA) being called, it would require foreach(vassal in ENG) { add_truce FRA } and make it recursive so the Count of Essex couldn't force a war between England and France when they have a truce.

2 actually makes MUCH more sense historically.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

You're not getting it.

The vassal isn't the issue.

Assume the AI King of England makes peace with the AI King of France. Hence, all their vassals are now at peace.

The Duke of York declares war on the Duke of Toulouse. This drags France and England back into a war, and they lose prestige.

The game engine needs to either 1) not give the prestige hit for responding to a vassal's call for aid, or 2) enforce the peace prestige hit (and the AI taking it into account!) for every vassal when the liege makes peace. Shouldn't be too hard. Instead of (add_truce ENG = FRA) being called, it would require foreach(vassal in ENG) { add_truce FRA } and make it recursive so the Count of Essex couldn't force a war between England and France when they have a truce.

2 actually makes MUCH more sense historically.

Well i'd prefer it so that the count of Essex if he thought he had the upper hand could still wage war against France without involving his liege as if we went back to no prestige hit for responding to vassals, we'd end up almost entirely in the same spot as before. However, the Count of Essex should take into consideration of its AI that it won't have help from England likely.
This is also VERY historic.

 

[Duuk]

Well i'd prefer it so that the count of Essex if he thought he had the upper hand could still wage war against France without involving his liege as if we went back to no prestige hit for responding to vassals, we'd end up almost entirely in the same spot as before. However, the Count of Essex should take into consideration of its AI that it won't have help from England likely.
This is also VERY historic.

Which would be fine... except that the AI 1) doesn't take it into account that his liege would hang him out to dry and 2) his liege WON'T hang him out to dry. As of now, the liege/allies always respond to the call. Or often enough so as to seem as "always".

So the AI decision making process needs to be tweaked a bit.