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Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti
33 Badges
Jul 8, 2005
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This though (or rather, pair of thoughts) occurred when I was thinking about land doctrines.

The first thought is this: a military page, much as we already have a diplomacy page. It would be the same layout. Instead of diplomatic options, there would be filtering options for your generals (say, order alphabetically and by rank, and filter by any or all traits under the sun). Of course, where diplomatic information is, that’s where the generals would be. If you select a general, the top part of his information (see here for more information on my idea for a new display system for selected generals) is shown where the ministers reside in the diplomatic window. Also, quite naturally, you would be able to assign generals to positions—either as ministers or leaders—here. And yes, there would be military sliders.

The military sliders would (hopefully) serve to make each army more unique beyond land doctrines. Standing/drafted army would of course me moved over here.

Other sliders would include centralized/decentralized execution (centralized makes land doctrine spread quicker [more on that later] but will double the after-battle recovery time and even add it for a defensive action. Decentralized cuts the after-battle time in half and morale is higher, but land doctrine spread is slower. Also, in a centralized system the abilities of the central figure are the most important and impacts battles more, while the effects of the men further down the chain of command get smaller and smaller. The opposite is true for a decentralized army).

Another slider would be a politician’s army/general’s army. Having a general’s army doesn’t give you any advantages but you don’t get the disadvantages of a politician’s army, which are several. A nasty one, if you move one toward a politician’s army it automatically also moves one toward a centralized army (‘cause the politicians want it for themselves, so it’s centralized on *them*, not the chief of staff or chiefs of the branches). This is to simulate the disastrous effect of a politician’s influence in the military field.

Another slider would be on traditional-minded/innovative. The more innovative an army is, the quicker land doctrines will spread and the higher the chance that a unit will innovate and might garner you a blueprint of a part of a land doctrine on its own. Of course, if it’s a more traditional army, slower and less likely.

Now finally, those land doctrines about which I’ve been hinting a couple ideas already.
First is the ‘spread’ of land doctrines. Since all technologies are components, I propose giving the theory components of a land doctrine part of the total effect of that doctrine. One the researcher finishes a component, it means that the theory for that sort of thing is finished and can be put to use, right? So if the researcher is, say, Guderian and he is a corps commander on the Eastern Front then his corps gets it right away. It then spread to neighboring units and so on and so on. It is more likely that it’ll spread (and quicker) if the units are on active duty (ie, where a hostile presence is nearby, not if they’re garrisoning Paris). Now, in the same situation but Guderian is chief of staff of all German armed forces—it will be universally applied right away, but the units have to ‘learn’ it and those on active duty ‘learn’ it quicker than those that are not.

Second is the possibility of a unit to discover an unresearched component on its own. It wouldn’t spread this component but you may gain a component-specific blueprint (ie, such as for the combined arms component “Gefechtsaufklaerung (fighting recon.)” of Blitzkrieg doctrine). The unit would get the benefits of this component, obviously but no other unit would have the possibility of getting it until the component is researched (unless they happen to discover the same one some time). Of course, units could only discover components from their country’s land doctrine branch. Also, this should be context sensitive so that sometime like components from mobile defense wouldn’t get gotten attacking, while components of assault artillery concentrations wouldn’t be discovered without an artillery brigade and spearhead components wouldn’t be discovered on the defense.

and of course, more (and more specific, ie less 'sweeping') land doctrines would be nice too.


I hope understand this stuff, my photoshop skills aren't enough to have been able to modify a screenshot (for the military page) without making an incredible mess that would probably be more confusing than simple text.
 
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I think your wasting your time here and should just apply for a job at paradox :D, though leave the balancing to others.

But the biggest problem is if u make the military side just as complex and advanced as victoria economics combined with crusader kings family trees, then 90% of the playerbase is gonna drop out simply because they either arent interrested in intellectual games, or that they simply dont have the mental capacity to make competent decisions on such a level, most people are just arkade/semi serious strategy gamers.
 
though leave the balancing to others.
aye, I should but I like to get into the nitty-gritty details myself, soo...:D

But the biggest problem is if u make the military side just as complex and advanced as victoria economics combined with crusader kings family trees
well hopefully it could be done in a way that was relativly accessible (ie, interface is everything). and plus, I don't think my suggestions go quite as far as victoria's economic system in complexity ;)
I'll work on that part though :D;)
 
well the point of this page would be to make finding leaders easier, it would function like the leader stat page, only it'd actually be useful 'cause you could do things in it. and then the sliders on the side, to make each country's army more unique beyond land doctrines (as there are only a total of 2 main branches [firepower/mobility], 4 major branches [superior/grand battle/blitzkrieg/human wave] and then two minor branches off superior fire, 3 within grand battle and 2 within blitzkrieg) and beyond any technological differences.
 
I would have to agree with comments on the risks of increasing the complexity of the game. Recall the mess of technology pages of HoI 1. I like some of Myth's ideas, but they can be put behind the curtain of game mechanics. The trick is to make it easy for the users. I suggest having a "doctrine upgrade" column for each military unit in the relevant statistics page. This could be similar to the regular "upgrade" which is really a "physical equipment upgrade". The "doctrine upgrade" can be calculated for each unit by the way Myth describes.

As for effects of leaders on "doctrine upgrade" speed, there could be a new "super-HQ" which would be very rare, and act like regular HQs, but on a larger land area. These should be super-rare units, so Nazi Germany in 1941 would have say four of them - Army Groups North, Center, and South, and one for Western Europe defense. Each super-HQ would have a "mini-mister/Field Marshall" which would be centralized, decentralized, political, Fortress Europe, Blitzkrieg (land speed bonus), etc. traits.

I suppose these "super-HQ" units could also give bonuses to Garrison suppression powers, foreign IC use, foreign resource production, domestic dissent reduction, etc. depending on the "mini-minister" used in the "super-HQ". These "mini-minister" would have prince-of-terror, etc. traits, which would effect the areas under the super-HQ's control. So Germany in 1941 would have one for France, Germany-home front, conquered Poland, and Balkans. This could have different impacts on the areas covered, neutral puppet for Vichy France area, Fascist puppet for Slovakia, prince-of-terror in Poland, etc.

These "super-HQ" units should be very expensive, so only the biggest powers should be able to afford them. This would reduce the complexity of Myth's ideas being applied to every small- and medium-sized nation. For example do users playing Nepal or Siam need the complexity that Myth suggests?
 
Wow, talk about reviving an old thread :eek:
And I agree with your post, the mechanics should be put into the background as much as possible. The super-HQs would be interesting, but in a way could be already covered by another post of mine, which suggests deepening the cabinet system so that beneath the chief, there are ministers who could take care of specific (preferably dynamically generated) regions. In Germany's case, the West, the East and the Southeast or something like that. Thus the capabilities of the super-HQs would be in-built without having to worry about, say, the British trying to bomb them to death or something.