Offer and Demand system

[Ten_Tacles]

Something I miss from Ck2 was a way to demand or offer things from/to the AI.
If I have a claim on some county in a foreign realm, the only way to get it would be to go to war over it, I can't demand it, or offer the owner to forfeit my claim in exchange for a bit of money (to give him security).

Likewise, I can't offer an enemy the option to peacefully convert to my religion or get invaded. Obviously this would be a rather tyrannical thing to do.

Things that could be offered, or demanded (on either side):

• A one time payment of gold
  
• Joining an ongoing war
• Assistance in a future war
• A timed non-aggression pact
• A marriage
• A claim
  
• The abandoning of a claim
• A title
• A vassal (Though the vassal will likely not like this)
• Exchange of technology (would behave as if the target had a spymaster on your capital) for a time
• A courtier (Though they might object)
• An artifact
• etc

I don't know how historical this would be, but it would be nice if you could pay the vikings to just fuck off and go raid someone else.

 

[Despotism]

I don't know how historical this would be, but it would be nice if you could pay the vikings to just fuck off and go raid someone else.

They really need to add something like this into the game before they reintroduce nomads, they're worse than the Vikings.

 

[Brian Bóroimhe]

I would love to see a much more flexible system of CBs in CK3 and this would be a really nice thing to tie into them.
A refused demand could give a CB to enforce it for example.

 

[lazprune]

Fully agree.

 

[TL_]

it would be nice if you could pay the vikings to just fuck off and go raid someone else.

I don't know about vikings but I can say there is some precedent for this among Turkic steppe nomads, particularly the Golden Horde

It's basically proto-tributary behavior

 

[klopkr]

I really wanted to see this in ck2!!

 

[Torngasuk]

I don't know how historical this would be, but it would be nice if you could pay the vikings to just fuck off and go raid someone else.

It's actually pretty funny - you've hit on what was absolutely an established historical practice: it's called Danegeld. Charles the Bald is traditionally said to have bribed Ragnar Lothbrok and his raiders with seven thousand pounds of silver to save Paris from being sacked by the vikings in the mid-9th century. Of course, logically, paying the vikings to leave also tended to lead to the vikings coming back later to get paid off again, and again, and again, and again.

Originating in payments on a more or less local scale, danegeld was first imposed, as a general tax, by decree of the Witan, in 991, on the advice of archbishop Sigeric, in order to bribe away these Scandinavian pirates - 'for the great terror the Danes occasioned on the coast,' and 10,000 was levied by this means in that year. In 1002, another danegeld, of 24,000, was levied to bribe away these fercious Vikingr or Creekmen. In 1007, a tribute of 36,000, levied in the same manner, was paid to the hostile army, and in 1011, 48,000.

Otherwise, I definitely agree that negotiation would be a valuable addition to CK3. Many conflicts were resolved somewhere between absolute victory and total defeat, and more than a few allied military expeditions essentially funded by the leader. I would hesitate to include claims in a negotiation system, however: that would far too easily lead to a system of buying and selling claims, I fear, when such claims would be far more likely to be hoarded like a dragon's gold. Similarly, I would like to see an option in which a war can be ended not just with a white peace, but a truce, which may later be renegotiated and extended in exchange for certain monetary or marital considerations.

On a further point, negotiations would be an interesting addition to claim wars and other civil conflicts. Perhaps you want to stake your claim to a crown, and the best way to do so is to tempt the incumbent's supporters with promises of wealth and marriages and titles in exchange for their support in the war. On the other hand, if the war is being fought for your crown and starting to drag on, then some wavering lords may be convinced to return to the fold or at least sit out the remainder of the war by promises of clemency for their straying from the path of loyalty.

 

[Vityviktor]

Marriages forming part of peace deals would be a nice addition. Also, I would love to be able to force that annoying guy to stop waging holy wars against me... like, forever (at least while he's still alive, and his successor would keep trying it).

 

[Battlex]

I don't know how historical this would be, but it would be nice if you could pay the vikings to just fuck off and go raid someone else.

You can settle vikings and it protects you from raids for like 25 years, but your vassals get annoyed with you, it's supposed to simulate the arrival of the Norman's into France but never gets replicated.
But yeh so much more they could add to diplomacy. In the latest bookmark they added, iron century, Lorraine starts as a tributary of west Francia because the Duke refused to accept Otto's coronation, so would be cool if vassals could break free and offer homage to someone else on monarch death, the Charles II of navarre paid homage to the Edward III of England for Charles' claimed lands in Northern France, backing Edward's claim to the throne of France. Maybe the creation of titular kingdoms for pretenders after insecure succession?

 

[Homer Thompson]

I've always disliked the fixed price for ransoms. If I've got a king in my dungeon and he's a hundred gold short I should have the option of accepting less. Conversely if I've been captured and the captor is less than receptive to letting me go, I should be able to offer more to try and convince him.
Another thing I'd like to see is the ability to purchase prisoners from someone else and have them transferred into my dungeon.

 

[cemery531]

I've always disliked the fixed price for ransoms. If I've got a king in my dungeon and he's a hundred gold short I should have the option of accepting less. Conversely if I've been captured and the captor is less than receptive to letting me go, I should be able to offer more to try and convince him.
Another thing I'd like to see is the ability to purchase prisoners from someone else and have them transferred into my dungeon.

Really like this idea! If it was implemented, perhaps there could be a prestige hit for ransoming a character for less than their 'worth'.

 

[Battlex]

I've always disliked the fixed price for ransoms. If I've got a king in my dungeon and he's a hundred gold short I should have the option of accepting less. Conversely if I've been captured and the captor is less than receptive to letting me go, I should be able to offer more to try and convince him.
Another thing I'd like to see is the ability to purchase prisoners from someone else and have them transferred into my dungeon.

Buy and transfer off prisoners happened a tonne historically, as well as shifting between prisons, also by capturing your opponent in war shouldn't release them straight away, or conversely always end the war immediately as a few French Kings were held in prison whilst the war continued even if the home front collapsed

 

[Ralle1900]

I don't know how historical this would be, but it would be nice if you could pay the vikings to just fuck off and go raid someone else.

This would be really nice, and actually historically acurate. I would be fun to play as a viking going around collecting Danegeld too I think.

 

[chelvo]

This also could help enormous with internal realm management.
Like, you really want that one country in your main Duchy, but it's held by a greedy vassal.
Why not offer him a freshly conquered duchy in exchange for a simple county?

 

[Ten_Tacles]

This also could help enormous with internal realm management.
Like, you really want that one country in your main Duchy, but it's held by a greedy vassal.
Why not offer him a freshly conquered duchy in exchange for a simple county?

Exactly!
There's a vassal I don't mind, but he has a title I really want.
I want a way to move him, without acquiring tyranny.

It's actually pretty funny - you've hit on what was absolutely an established historical practice: it's called Danegeld. Charles the Bald is traditionally said to have bribed Ragnar Lothbrok and his raiders with seven thousand pounds of silver to save Paris from being sacked by the vikings in the mid-9th century. Of course, logically, paying the vikings to leave also tended to lead to the vikings coming back later to get paid off again, and again, and again, and again.

Ah yes, I knew I was remembering that right.
It would be an absolutely fun addition!

Otherwise, I definitely agree that negotiation would be a valuable addition to CK3. Many conflicts were resolved somewhere between absolute victory and total defeat, and more than a few allied military expeditions essentially funded by the leader. I would hesitate to include claims in a negotiation system, however: that would far too easily lead to a system of buying and selling claims, I fear, when such claims would be far more likely to be hoarded like a dragon's gold. Similarly, I would like to see an option in which a war can be ended not just with a white peace, but a truce, which may later be renegotiated and extended in exchange for certain monetary or marital considerations.

The ability to pay someone to give up their claim would be fine then I hope, I hadn't thought about hoarding them.
I would like the ability to trade titles though.

On a further point, negotiations would be an interesting addition to claim wars and other civil conflicts. Perhaps you want to stake your claim to a crown, and the best way to do so is to tempt the incumbent's supporters with promises of wealth and marriages and titles in exchange for their support in the war. On the other hand, if the war is being fought for your crown and starting to drag on, then some wavering lords may be convinced to return to the fold or at least sit out the remainder of the war by promises of clemency for their straying from the path of loyalty.

Prevent claim wars by pacifying your brothers with some duchies in exchange for giving up their claims.

Buy and transfer off prisoners happened a tonne historically, as well as shifting between prisons, also by capturing your opponent in war shouldn't release them straight away, or conversely always end the war immediately as a few French Kings were held in prison whilst the war continued even if the home front collapsed

Buying and selling prisoners would be a lovely thing to do, hah.