Open beta for 1.04 - RC4

[son of liberty]

We might get a little OT, so I´ll try to cut things short: Base IC 314 (no IC built, only infra), available 213 (-68% peacetime modifier). Most relevant techs have been researched (90% speed), 4 lv.IV CV´s built, several lv. IV CA´s, CL´s, DD´s, sub´s. All Pacific islands have GAR, the 4 most important ones are stronger and fortified. Airpower is somewhat weak (only a few INT built), only defensive ground forces. That´s pretty much the situation of the US before they entered WW II. They are not likely go into the offensive immediately, but with another 213 IC to come when the war starts they should be able to turn the tide within one or two years.

If that is the set up you want, why not just play the 41 scenario?
I do a HUGE ic build in prewar years. 12x5 to start with more ic built from the increased ic. I don't build many units while Garner is in office. I shoot for 400 base ic. IC was the defining factor of the USA in WW2. I emphasize that. 314 base is too close to what Germany and the Soviets can have. The USA should have a major IC advantage over the rest of the world.

To prevent prewar unit spamming, might I suggest that Garner's unit cost Malus be substantially increased while leaving the USA the ability to substantially increase non military builds(ie ic, infra, refineries etc....).

 

[Blecky]

peacetime modifier for USA in 1936 scenario

I just looked up the scenario information for the USA in the 1936 scenario. It says:

peacetime_ic_mod = 0.25

Wouldn´t this mean that the peacetime modifier should be -75%? Instead the tooltip says -94%

 

[son of liberty]

I just looked up the scenario information for the USA in the 1936 scenario. It says:

peacetime_ic_mod = 0.25

Wouldn´t this mean that the peacetime modifier should be -75%? Instead the tooltip says -94%

They have changed something else
The -75% is what I am used to. That is fine. -94% sux! That is why I wondered if they even tested it before they released it like that.

 

[Denniss]

Past-historical research modifier

Please modify the logic behind this calculation.
Currently the crossover from malus (pre-historical) to bonus(past-historical) is on January 1st of every year. So if you research a 1936 tech in 1936 you get a small but raising bonus. But such a bonus should only be available if you research it in 1937 or later.
And second, the bonus applied per year should be limited to ~15 points.

 

[Starfury]

They have changed something else
The -75% is what I am used to. That is fine. -94% sux! That is why I wondered if they even tested it before they released it like that.

For some strange reason, US (and only US) peacetime modifier isn't the value given in the scenario file (or the savegame)
Instead it's -0.25 + 1.25 * peacetime_ic_mod

 

[kane279]

mad SOV

in my German 1936 game unter 1.04RC4 it's finally proven: the SOV are mad!!!
Just a week after bitter peace, they declared war on....USA!!!! :rofl:

sorry to say, but this is a bit derranged

Anyone else seen that happen?

 

[son of liberty]

For some strange reason, US (and only US) peacetime modifier isn't the value given in the scenario file (or the savegame)
Instead it's -0.25 + 1.25 * peacetime_ic_mod

How do I put it back?

 

[Starfury]

How do I put it back?

If you want the old 25% modifier then edit the savegame (or the scenario file) and put in 0.4000 instead of 0.2500 as the US' peacetime_ic_mod value.

Ideally you'd then also mod the peacetime_ic_mod bonus of event 56 to 20, those of events 57 and 58 to 12 and event 581 to 8 (all events are in the hoi2.txt event file) Otherwise the same modified formula that gives you -93.75% IC at the start would give you too much of a boost with the gearing events.

 

[Lennartos]

They have changed something else
The -75% is what I am used to. That is fine. -94% sux! That is why I wondered if they even tested it before they released it like that.

Hehe
Well lets say its to prevent stange situations...
Like starting a game where you are US on very hard... -40 + -75 = -115 = 0IC
The calculation now has changed to be propertional of your current IC.
In most cases thats the same as before - but in situations where the modifiers are very high you get more IC than before.
Coincedently any Bonus you earn will also be taxed with the peace time modifier, wich also kind of makes sense if you think about it. (assigning a minister that is more effective doesnt mean the depression is gone... not even close)

So basically its making the peacetime modifier more flexible and give a better resonse to the other modifiers and player resposes ( if you have bad modifiers you get a bit less penality - if you have many good modifiers you get a bit more.. but its always fair, linear and doesnt have a weak point like the 0IC situation in the old mechanic).

But i see now that i could have made the tooltip a bit better - this would be better i think:

Base IC = 100
Minister +10
Tech +10
Effective IC = 120
PeaceTime effect -75%
IC Availible = 30

As thats how its done now...

 

[Starfury]

The calculation now has changed to be propertional of your current IC.

That's where those darn 25% came from! It was the other +25% modifiers the US had... o

 

[son of liberty]

Hehe
Well lets say its to prevent stange situations...
Like starting a game where you are US on very hard... -40 + -75 = -115 = 0IC
The calculation now has changed to be propertional of your current IC.
In most cases thats the same as before - but in situations where the modifiers are very high you get more IC than before.
Coincedently any Bonus you earn will also be taxed with the peace time modifier, wich also kind of makes sense if you think about it. (assigning a minister that is more effective doesnt mean the depression is gone... not even close)

So basically its making the peacetime modifier more flexible and give a better resonse to the other modifiers and player resposes ( if you have bad modifiers you get a bit less penality - if you have many good modifiers you get a bit more.. but its always fair, linear and doesnt have a weak point like the 0IC situation in the old mechanic).

But i see now that i could have made the tooltip a bit better - this would be better i think:

Base IC = 100
Minister +10
Tech +10
Effective IC = 120
PeaceTime effect -75%
IC Availible = 30

As thats how its done now...

Something is wrong with the application. This still doesn't explain how the USA lost so much of it's income.

 

[Starfury]

Something is wrong with the application. This still doesn't explain how the USA lost so much of it's income.

No, it fits perfectly. The US have three IC modifiers on that level.
+10% technology
+15% ministers and ideas
-93.75% peacetime effect

Together it amounts to 100+10+15-93.75 = 31.25%, which is exactly 25% of the 125% you'd have if you were at war, so the desired -75% peacetime effect is applied correctly.

However, since the effect isn't applied seperately after the technology and politics effects but instead at the same time, you can't just subtract 75% but you also need to subtract 75% of the two other bonuses and so you get the displayed modifier of 75+(0.75*10)+(0.75*15) = 75 + 7.5 + 11.25 = 93.75%

 

[son of liberty]

Basically, as you can see, I could build NOTHING and still not afford to research.

That is unplayable imo. How do I get back to 1.03? this sucks.

 

[Starfury]

Basically, as you can see, I could build NOTHING and still not afford to research.

That is unplayable imo. How do I get back to 1.03? this sucks.

A few posts ago, I wrote what you can modify to get 1.03 levels of IC

But a few other points:
Why do you pay full military salaries in peacetime?
You have hundreds of resources you can sell to earn money. You should be able to earn 50 money / day from trades.
Putting the research slider at 100% is a bit like producing everything with the "hurry button". You can reduce funding by 50% and still research at ~75% the speed. There's not too many '36 techs to research anyway and so a good part of the extra research speed is eaten up by higher ahead of time tech penalties.

Yes, in the end you won't be able to fully fund your entire initial production queue or even have the resources to start an ahistorical industrial buildup, but it's a far cry from unplayable.

 

[son of liberty]

A few posts ago, I wrote what you can modify to get 1.03 levels of IC

I prefer to get the game put back the way it was in case multi-player becomes possible with AoD.

But a few other points:
Why do you pay full military salaries in peacetime?
You have hundreds of resources you can sell to earn money. You should be able to earn 50 money / day from trades.
Putting the research slider at 100% is a bit like producing everything with the "hurry button". You can reduce funding by 50% and still research at ~75% the speed. There's not too many '36 techs to research anyway and so a good part of the extra research speed is eaten up by higher ahead of time tech penalties.

Yes, in the end you won't be able to fully fund your entire initial production queue or even have the resources to start an ahistorical industrial buildup, but it's a far cry from unplayable.

I have been doing the same industrial build up since pre-doomsday. If this was to be changed, it should have been done with the new release. Doing this as a patch with no discussion????????

As for "ahistorical" I absolutely disagree. I am only trying to get the US industrial complex to historical levels.

 

[unmerged(146102)]

so, could anyone help me figure out how to install this on the steam version?

 

[Lennartos]

so, could anyone help me figure out how to install this on the steam version?

Download and unpack

Then copy over the files / folders in the game directory.
Make sure you copy the content to overwrite the current stuff, and not make a subdirectory.

 

[Aidan]

I prefer to get the game put back the way it was in case multi-player becomes possible with AoD.

I have been doing the same industrial build up since pre-doomsday. If this was to be changed, it should have been done with the new release. Doing this as a patch with no discussion????????

As for "ahistorical" I absolutely disagree. I am only trying to get the US industrial complex to historical levels.

Don't need to revert to a former patch. You can adjust the usa.inc file.

Goto: \Arsenal of Democracy\scenarios\1936\USA.inc
Edit with notepad
Line # 266 is: peacetime_ic_mod = 0.25
Adjust to your satisfaction.

 

[froglegs]

Naval Battles

I have now seen several times a fast CA fleet set to night attack (not sure if that matters) and maintain engagement close during the night on a slower carrier fleet and pound the crap out of them until they ran. The CA's and CL's and DD's all had radar (not sure if that matters).

 

[Hardin]

I have been trying out the new patch.

Reloaded this game http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470190 as it had been unplayable once 1.03 was introduced.

Happy to report that it seems to be going at a reasonable and playable speed now.

I only noticed one bug - but it is possible that this was simply caused by loading an old game.

Basically I had military control of Republican Spain and Italy. When the war with the allies broke out the Belgians invaded France (took me by surprise actually as Belgium had never been attacked by the Germans and therefore did not join the Allies - but did join when I declared war in the UK.)

Anyway - as puppets at war with the Allies and under my military control the Italian and Spanish units should have been able to attack hostile territory - but for some reasons they couldn't. In Spain I had to move some French divisions down to Seville in order to take Gibraltar as the Spanish units surrounding it would not move on the territory.

Likewise in France the Italian/Spanish units did hold onto French territory - but would not attack anything the Belgians had taken. I again had to dispatch French divisions (which were in Brest waiting to invade the UK) to push the Belgians back. They actually sacked Paris!

I didn't really get a chance to test armor fully but noticed that the 'upgrade cost' (I was a Centralised Communist Government) for the 11 tank divisions was OVER 600 IC when I made the next tech level. As I have not tried to build new tank divisions yet I am not sure if the upgrade cost is reflective of a new production cost - but would assume it is.

I also noticed that supply and reorganisation really has an effect on slowing assaults down. My armor spearheads will still cut through but they get disorganised much more quickly so you have to 'rest' them. Felt much more realistic (and tougher)...

Will play some more this evening...