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Opinion: It is unacceptable to have only 7 tier 1 countries

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benjaminoon

Second Lieutenant
Apr 21, 2024
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As per Johan's post "The Flavor Tiers", there are only 7 countries with tier 1 flavor in Europa Universalis 5.

These countries are:
  • Fr*nce
  • England
  • Ottomans
  • Castile / Spain
  • Muscovy / Russia
  • Austria
  • Yuán / China
Seven. Seven, for the whole, entire world. It is not seven for Europe, or seven for the Middle-East, or Seven for Asia or America. It's for the world.

This, in my opinion, is not at all acceptable. Besides the fact that it is completely unimmersive to have Fr*nce
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and the inbred Habsburg country
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on the same tier as England
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, the Ottomans
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, and China 中国
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社会信用点
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, it also feels incredibly bad to have the developers state that they're doing completely new Tinto Flavors every week and having over 60+ countries with a supposedly high level of flavor, only for them to have less than 200 dynamic historical events and 100 unique research advances each, making them all basically the same.

It's not only those things. It is also event backgrounds, graphical unit archetypes, and countless other details that really add to the flavor and experience of playing different nations in wholly different regions of the world.

And we can't get tier 1 flavor for every country on release because what? It's reserved for DLC content? Because they know it'll sell? I can understand doing that for specific "nations" like Fr*nce, but having whole, massive portions of the world lack tier 1 flavor is jarring. They are holding themselves to good standards when it comes to other things, why is this an exception? Are we going to be resold Emperor, Lions of the North and Leviathan content packs again? Like they resold DLC for CK3?

I'm not an expert in the topic, but at the very least I would've expected Ulm and Ryukyu to have tier 1 flavor as well.
 
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The tier 1 country list they should have gone with:

Byzantium
Byzantium
Byzantium
Eastern Roman Empire
Byzantium
Basileia ton Romaion
Byzantium
 
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We should file a class action lawsuit against Paradox for this travesty. The damages will be paid by giving every citizen of a non tier 1 country a copy of the game and a lifetime dlc pass. Anything else is unacceptable
 
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From the perspective of a long time Paradox fan: my hometown of Shittenburg should be the only Tier 1 nation. It’s simply preposterous that countries completely irrelevant to the game’s timeframe, like Spain or the Ottomans, are granted the privilege of being Tier 1, while Shittenburg, which had a 14 man strong militia, won’t even be included. This is so absurd that I’m even questioning whether I should buy the game anymore, as it seems to be in a completely unplayable state.
 
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Just to be clear, Tier 1 country level flavour that, say, England had in EU4 was around 50 (I think less) DHE events, while they now have 200+ IIRC, so a country being in a lower tier in EU5 doesn't necessarily mean they have less content than an EU4 country would
The advances thing you mention is IMO very silly because you quite literally cannot research all the advances so each country will play differently even with the solely shared advances depending on how you or the AI go about it, so the added special advances are really cool but they'll only impact you so much insofar as it makes sense for you to even make use of them (and makes it possible to customize your own "national ideas" via them)
they're not just gonna be reselling DLC stuff since it's not directly portrable and a lot of old content like the DLCs you mentioned would need to be reworked for EU5's systems since they've very different from EU4 (and quite possibly have already been so it'd be more like adding onto those mechanics and flavour)
France was in this time period a big enough player that basically everyone around them allied against it to stop it (not that I care for France as a country but like it makes sense), while those same Habsburgs controlled half the world at one point (yknow, as rulers of both Spain and HRE via Austria in two different house branches)
Anyway the only thing I do think are reasonable complaints are about unit graphics and background art and stuff, but I would also prefer for them to do what they can *right* in the time frame they set for themselves as release for the game (since a game has to come out and feature creep gets you Star Citizen) than pushing out half baked content instead.
 
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CorwinusJ said:
Just to be clear, Tier 1 country level flavour that, say, England had in EU4 was around 50 (I think less) DHE events, while they now have 200+ IIRC, so a country being in a lower tier in EU5 doesn't necessarily mean they have less content than an EU4 country would
The advances thing you mention is IMO very silly because you quite literally cannot research all the advances so each country will play differently even with the solely shared advances depending on how you or the AI go about it, so the added special advances are really cool but they'll only impact you so much insofar as it makes sense for you to even make use of them (and makes it possible to customize your own "national ideas" via them)
they're not just gonna be reselling DLC stuff since it's not directly portrable and a lot of old content like the DLCs you mentioned would need to be reworked for EU5's systems since they've very different from EU4 (and quite possibly have already been so it'd be more like adding onto those mechanics and flavour)
France was in this time period a big enough player that basically everyone around them allied against it to stop it (not that I care for France as a country but like it makes sense), while those same Habsburgs controlled half the world at one point (yknow, as rulers of both Spain and HRE via Austria in two different house branches)
Anyway the only thing I do think are reasonable complaints are about unit graphics and background art and stuff, but I would also prefer for them to do what they can *right* in the time frame they set for themselves as release for the game (since a game has to come out and feature creep gets you Star Citizen) than pushing out half baked content instead.
Click to expand...
I think you should read the last sentence
 
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Big_birdy said:
I think you should read the last sentence
Click to expand...
I can see why you think that's contradictory but I've literally explained why I disagree that most of the things mentioned by the OP are half-baked (especially since we don't know in truth just how much flavour there really is until we play it) while I do agree that some parts are things that quite possibly could have had bigger scope but for now I am reserving judgment since I'd prefer at least something good to everything bland.
 
CorwinusJ said:
I can see why you think that's contradictory but I've literally explained why I disagree that most of the things mentioned by the OP are half-baked (especially since we don't know in truth just how much flavour there really is until we play it) while I do agree that some parts are things that quite possibly could have had bigger scope but for now I am reserving judgment since I'd prefer at least something good to everything bland.
Click to expand...
oh wait nvm I didn't realize this was just a meme post (yes the last sentence was off but I could imagine some people genuinely thinking what the OP was posting... as is the case of the actually serious poster they were riffing off of)
 
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benjaminoon said:
As per Johan's post "The Flavor Tiers", there are only 7 countries with tier 1 flavor in Europa Universalis 5.

These countries are:
  • Fr*nce
  • England
  • Ottomans
  • Castile / Spain
  • Muscovy / Russia
  • Austria
  • Yuán / China
Seven. Seven, for the whole, entire world. It is not seven for Europe, or seven for the Middle-East, or Seven for Asia or America. It's for the world.

This, in my opinion, is not at all acceptable. Besides the fact that it is completely unimmersive to have Fr*nceView attachment 1309918 and the inbred Habsburg countryView attachment 1309929 on the same tier as EnglandView attachment 1309926View attachment 1309928, the Ottomans View attachment 1309923View attachment 1309923View attachment 1309923View attachment 1309921View attachment 1309921View attachment 1309921, and China 中国View attachment 1309925社会信用点View attachment 1309919, it also feels incredibly bad to have the developers state that they're doing completely new Tinto Flavors every week and having over 60+ countries with a supposedly high level of flavor, only for them to have less than 200 dynamic historical events and 100 unique research advances each, making them all basically the same.

It's not only those things. It is also event backgrounds, graphical unit archetypes, and countless other details that really add to the flavor and experience of playing different nations in wholly different regions of the world.

And we can't get tier 1 flavor for every country on release because what? It's reserved for DLC content? Because they know it'll sell? I can understand doing that for specific "nations" like Fr*nce, but having whole, massive portions of the world lack tier 1 flavor is jarring. They are holding themselves to good standards when it comes to other things, why is this an exception? Are we going to be resold Emperor, Lions of the North and Leviathan content packs again? Like they resold DLC for CK3?

I'm not an expert in the topic, but at the very least I would've expected Ulm and Ryukyu to have tier 1 flavor as well.
Click to expand...
Then don't accept.
It's your opinion.
So f*/-ing what?
 
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For flavour: the tiers are no more than an ordering, which is always useful when developing something (like painting or running a marathon).
We actually even have proof that it's a flexible ranking, with Venice having more content than Yuan.

Putting everything on top only means that nothing gets what it needs.

I don't mind if you want to discuss the order, but not the fact that there has to be an order.
 
IAmBecomeDeath said:
The tier 1 country list they should have gone with:

Byzantium
Byzantium
Byzantium
Eastern Roman Empire
Byzantium
Basileia ton Romaion
Byzantium
Click to expand...
First Rome
Second Rome
Third Rome
 
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