paratroopers geneal

[mcganyol]

paratrooper attack is so bugged overall, hard to make a list of what's wrong with them (if u want i can try to sum it up).
As we all know, if a province is attacked by paradropping, all the incoming defenders (by support def mission or any other means) became the attackers instead of defender. So far so good, it can be justifyed by 'hey u have to attack the para'. But the incoming troops ALL get overcommand max penalty (-75), regardless of any other circumstances (i mean rank of leader, number of troops, hq present etc). So no matter if only 1 unit is defending, and 1 is coming in by support def, both led by FM and a hq is near, the incoming troops will still get the overcommand penalty. even better u have to fight the enemy attacking land formations as if they were the defenders.

Imo that overcommand penalty is a bug, especially as in the battle window where u can see the current/max units under the leaders it always shows higher number for max available participants than current (like 19/48)

Please if possible at least eliminate this overcommand penalty. Currently paras are worser than spartans. 1para holding the bridge behind enemy lines "what 9arm, and 9mech divisions are coming, above the 6inf divisons i already fight? abslutely no matter, this is sparta!!!!"

 

[joerd9]

So, in other words, i can drop a para division on each maginot line province and pwn da french army, since I am magically turned into the defender then and profit from lvl 10 fortifications? Have to try it just for fun...

But really, even if paratroops behave as you described above, wouldn't they at some point run out of supplies and ammunition, thus reducing their combat effectiveness considerably?

 

[mcganyol]

no, not really. the original defenders of the province will still remain defenders. para can block any incoming reinforments tough, by making them attackers of the province also (and all of these attackers will have overcommand penalty as a bug).
to make it clear your units combat effectivness is modified by many factors, if you para to maginot and attack the same time on land the following will happen:
your para will have attacking modifiers, but not affected by land fort penalty,
your land units will have attacking modifiers, affected by land fort penalty,
his troops in the current province will have defensive modifiers,
his support troops coming to the province by any means (support def., moving them, para) will have attacking modifiers, land fort penalty plus overcommand penalty. (this usually means something like 2/10percent effectivness)

This translates if the province was garrisoned with 20divs before the attack, it wont help u much, but if it was on say 3divs, para will save the day, basically no matter what overwhelming odds it need to face, it can hold easily 50attacking divs from 3adjancment provinces for weeks.

Para is not used to run out of supplies, it is "recharging" just as your other units (very odd behind enemy lines tough). Even if things get rough, and its org drops to zero, you can safely withdraw them, they are absolutely not in grave-danger for a minute. You may use them on VoV, so even with 0 org, they simply wont break, nor lose strength very fast.

 

[joerd9]

I see. Put this way, it sounds a bit op to me. But then again, these guys are expensive, especially if you add the transport plane cost.

But the overcommand penalty thingy doesn't seem very logical in any case.

 

[MagooNZ]

Agree, the overcommand penalty and the land fort penalty for incoming defenders from adjacent provinces should not be there (I seldom use Paras so havent confirmed this outcome). I tried paras once, cant recall what game or version, after they lost all organisation they surrendered, they didnt retreat. Thought it may have been due to that paradrop being across a river. Para's shouldnt be able to retreat through a strongly fortified line.

Not directly related, but I previously suggested modifying land forts to be province border specific & directional (land forts are currently multidirectional and province wide dispersed). This mod would be expected to get rid of this land fort penalty for incoming "defenders" attacking the paras. Who gets the land fort penalty should depend on who is the current controller of the province and, if modified, the border being crossed.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

The paratrooper problem listed by mcganyol still exists, even in the latest update by 1.11. To re-iterate the main problem is when defending against a paratrooper that has been dropped from the air, every reinforcement unit you send from adjacent territories is treated as an attacker and gets a -75 command penalty regardless of the command limit & generals being used.

Please see the link with the save - https://ufile.io/6d6zw - as Germany attacking Alytus, two Soviet reinforcement units from Suwalki are included in the battle demonstrating this. Alternatively you can load up as the USSR and send units to defend Alytus to see what happens.

I can't do a screenshot as Steam keeps saving them as 1KB BMP images which can't be opened....

 

[MJF]

I can't do a screenshot as Steam keeps saving them as 1KB BMP images which can't be opened....

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Thanks, Lennartos has already replied in the Steam AoD forums saying this will be fixed in the next beta - https://steamcommunity.com/app/42850/discussions/0/1699415798765367085/?ctp=4