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Yasko

Yasko

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Feb 13, 2001
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I installed the latest patch and started a new game. I am playing Ottomans, DOWed Memlukes and annexed them, badboy 18!!, why? its only 13 provinces, why do I get 18? The Russian AI declared war around the same time and annexed khazan-khanet its 5 provinces and Russia gets only 6 provinces, what's the difference between my annexation and Russian? However I will change my badboy to 0, since trying to play historical play with Ottomans are impossible with current badboy values.....
 
You are a muslim attacking fellow moslems, while Russia as christian are attacking moslems.
 
Yasko I've played two GC as the Turks, under 1.7 and its not impossible, even with the old bad boy formula.

First GC, after about 150 years I had expanded greatly and quickly. With Persia, 'Egypt' and Georgia annexed. However I had rampant revolts, and every other power was attacking me.

Second GC, after about 100 years I had 50% of 'Egypt', 30% of Persia, all of Georgia and Iraq. (I also had Crimea due to random event of monarch death without heir.) On top of this I had city colonies in Monterey CA, and two city colonies on North America's East coast. (Picked up a conquistador with the Crimea event.) And I had revolts, and every other power attacking me.

Its a 300 year game. In both of the above, I got greedy, and stubborn, and pompous in the last 10 years of play, when I still had over 150-200 years of play left. (Spain took Monterey and I was determined to get it back.)

Note that aside from the Crimea fluke, I made more progress in the second GC in 100 years than 150 years of the first GC. In the second GC I paid more attention to establishing relationships and then alliances early that matched my geographic goals (including England in the second GC, thats where I got the rudders for North America). I used colonists as missionaries to manage new annexations. I played the trade centers effectively. I setup bailiffs and courts. Above all, was patient, patient, patient. And I still had time for war.

The last evening I was playing I could not believe I still had 200 years of play left, and plenty of time to make Turkey great.

I put Turkey into a that mess in those last 10 years because I wanted it all now. If I kept going, I know I'd have lost Monterey (Spain wanted that gold), AND the Sinai AND Judea (Spain landed armies and seized), AND probably Kosovo, AND maybe even the Crimea. Not because Turkey can't win, but because I changed my strategy.

I am quiting this second GC to load the 1.8 patch, my excuse to myself for losing control.

Stay with it Yasko, steady as she goes.
 
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'Stay with it Yasko, steady as she goes.'

I know, the problem is that i want to vassalize countries like crimea, hedjaz, tripoli.., cyrenica, tunis and alger like ottomans did early 16th century, its quite impossible if you try to expand like the ottomans did early 16th century due to badboy. But like i said, i changed my badboy to 0 after the conquest of memlukes. Right now the year is 1518, and i have annexed Hungary, Rhodes, Vallakia and Moldovia. I´m going for vassalization of those Sunni countries now. And probably after Persia(which annexed Iraq) later...

But Russian AI seems to work now, they already have annexed the first khanet which is good.
 
Originally posted by Johan
You are a muslim attacking fellow moslems, while Russia as christian are attacking moslems.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I doubt that the Sunnis considered Shiites 'fellow Moslems'. :eek:
 
I know, the problem is that i want to vassalize countries like crimea, hedjaz, tripoli.., cyrenica, tunis and alger like ottomans did early 16th century, its quite impossible if you try to expand like the ottomans did early 16th century due to badboy. But like i said, i changed my badboy to 0 after the conquest of memlukes.

Setting BB to 0 won't help sh*t in vassalizing other muslims, if you have gone around annexing others left and right. They will hate your guts anyway.

FIRST go for diplomatic relations & vassalisation THEN you can start annexing.
 
Originally posted by Huszics
Setting BB to 0 won't help sh*t in vassalizing other muslims, if you have gone around annexing others left and right. They will hate your guts anyway.

FIRST go for diplomatic relations & vassalisation THEN you can start annexing.
Click to expand...

I think the hardest thing to get used to about EU (and the thing that always gets blamed on the BB value) is that folks forget that (1) there are other options than just conquest and (2) the GC is 300 years long. You don't have to annex half of Europe in the first 50 years. The BB value encourages patience and diplomacy, which is as it should be.
 
Why set your badboy to 0? Do you want any kind of a challenge at all? You probably play on the lowest difficultly level too right? And reset if you lose a battle? Hey, why don't you just go into the game file and make yourself some 9/9/9 military leaders or turn fog of war off?


If you don't like badboy, set ALL the countries to 0 or -20, not just yours. I am starting to come back around and think that badboy isn't soooo bad anyway though.
 
'Setting BB to 0 won't help sh*t in vassalizing other Muslims, if you have gone around annexing others left and right. They will hate your guts anyway.

FIRST go for diplomatic relations & vassalisation THEN you can start annexing.'

Like I said I try to play HISTORICALLY CORRECT, do the same things Ottomans did, I can give you a link if you want to read the Ottoman history between 1514-1540.....

'Why set your badboy to 0? Do you want any kind of a challenge at all? You probably play on the lowest difficultly level too right? And reset if you lose a battle? Hey, why don't you just go into the game file and make yourself some 9/9/9 military leaders or turn fog of war off?'

Difficulty Normal, Aggressiveness Normal. No reseting.

Same answer as above, its not possible, because when you annex Christian states at the same speed ottomans did, of some reason even Sunni states(which seeked protection from the ottomans IRL) will hate you, that's my problem, not the fact that other Christian states will hate me. I changed my badboy to 0 after memlukes annexation and it was the only time I did this. Like I said, if you play historically correct you have to annex memlukes(+18 happened 1517), Rhodes(+2 happened 1522), Moldavia(+2), Whallacia(+2), Hungary(+9 happened 1526) Tabriz and Baghdad(probably +5 including irak 1534), Kurdistan+Armenia(+3 happened 1514)

Now start counting that's around 18+2+2+2+9+5+3=41 in 50 years. At the same time Algeria gets vassalized(IMHO annexed is more accurate) 1533, Hedjaz is a part of the empire 1517 after the annexation of Memlukes. North Africa I part of the empire around 1551...

Now try to do this things with the current badboy value, mission impossible right? What I'm saying is that, the Sunni Moslem nation should not get effected by my badboy value, so that I can accomplish what ottomans did historically. That's why I made the badboy value 0, at least now I have a chance to this, and my badboy right now is 11.

Here is a link to a map who shows the ottoman expansion around this time: http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/single_image/0,5716,1931+asmbly_id,00.html.
 
Like I said I try to play HISTORICALLY CORRECT, do the same things Ottomans did, I can give you a link if you want to read the Ottoman history between 1514-1540.....

I'd be interested in that link, though I don't think it will say that the Ottomans succeded with this without also using heavy diplomacy towards it's neighbours.

Sure badboy will be high, but Turkey had a LOT of enemys by that time and was dislike by basicly everyone. This is obvious if you for instance also look at how fast Turkey lost much of their gains later on.

If you play the game historically, annexing left and right very eary in the game, don't be surpriced when (also historycally) you loose almost everything again by 1792.

18+2+2+2+9+5+3=41 in 50 years

Well, you kind of neglected that 50 years = -12 to 13 BB.

Now try to do this things with the current badboy value, mission impossible right?

I don't think it is as bad as you try to portray it, give me some links to what turkey did when and I'll try to mimic it in my next game.
 
Re: Bad Boy?

Originally posted by Kurgan
I have seen the question of the Bad Boy around, but I have never seen an explanation of what it is. Could anyone explain it?
Click to expand...

I would suggest reading my FAQ (link in sig)
 
Yasko,

Thanks for the map link! I had been looking for such a thing to enhance my enjoyment of my GC Turk campaign.

Gotta' leave for work right now, but am hoping that this Britannica site will have other maps for other major powers for future GCs.

I appreciate your desire to recreate history. I also enjoy the comparison between playing a GC and history, but as has been discussed in countless other threads, the game puts you in Europe as it was (even that's been debated) in 1492. What happens from 1493 on is gonna' be challenging, wild, wooly, zany, peculiar, funny, stunning, educational, but least of all a literal recreation of history. :)

ENJOY!
 
'I'd be interested in that link, though I don't think it will say that the Ottomans succeded with this without also using heavy diplomacy towards it's neighbours.'

here is the link, its from time of Selim I(this guy was something like 5/5/5/1 commander annexing the memlukes in one sweep + kicking some persian butt), who ruled between 1512-20, not much happened between 1492-1512 under the Beyazid rule. And you have a table of content at the end of the page.

http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/8/0,5716,120798+3+111081,00.html?query=ottomans

'Sure badboy will be high, but Turkey had a LOT of enemys by that time and was dislike by basicly everyone. This is obvious if you for instance also look at how fast Turkey lost much of their gains later on.'

I agree, and Persia, Polen-L, Austria and Venice should really hate the Ottomans, but the same time Suleyman I managed to have an alliance with France against Spain/Austria, and of course vassalized some sunni countries(not Crimea, they were already vassalized during the reign of Mehmet II)

'I don't think it is as bad as you try to portray it, give me some links to what turkey did when and I'll try to mimic it in my next game.'

When you are done, could you send me a e-mail or post someting on the Board? my e-mail: selcuk_sancak@hotmail.com

I know that i whine too much, but i really like this game, and its really fun to play more historicall game.....
 
There are always ways around the badboy (that's why I think it should be modified even further). If you play as Turkey, and want to declare war on Mameluks, see who they are allied with. They are normally allied with Venice. Declare war on Venice and concentrate your efforts on Mameluks. Since Venice is christian and you're moslem you wont get a huge BB out of it. AI does it all the time, so why can't you?
 
'There are always ways around the badboy (that's why I think it should be modified even further). If you play as Turkey, and want to declare war on Mameluks, see who they are allied with. They are normally allied with Venice. Declare war on Venice and concentrate your efforts on Mameluks. Since Venice is christian and you're moslem you wont get a huge BB out of it. AI does it all the time, so why can't you?'

Is that true? Honestly i did´nt know that...Thnx
 
But the Turks hated the Shiite's much more than they did the Catholics. Can someone please clarify why Shiite's are treated as if they were Sunni's with regards to badboy value. Mamelukes are Shiite's correct? :(
 
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