Pax Universalis - Utopia in Europe AAR Ideas thread

[unmerged(83588)]

Hello all

I've been spurred into finally posting on the forum because of an idea for an experiment I'd like to run.

I want to write a Crusader Kings AAR, and it seems like a good time to start planning it, what with Deus Vult soon to be released.

The idea is this: to develop Utopia in Europe, as the Kingdom of England, from a starting date of 1066. The highest standard of living, the most equal society, the most fair government (insofar as is possible in a feudal system), an absence of war, famine and plague. Free love, vegetarianism, communal ownership of the means of production (well... maybe not! I'm not a raging communist by any stretch of the imagination. No offence to any communists out there, raging or otherwise ).

But before I start I could use a few suggestions. Is it possible to play a pacifist country in CK? How could I reduce war between states? How will I measure success? What does everyone think of the idea? Comments, suggestions, criticism are all welcome.

I'll consider all ideas and political philosophies - from "si vis pacem, para bellum" to satragraha.

Peace!

 

[unmerged(61606)]

welcome to the forums

but peace in the crusader kings era is absolutely impossible

 

[unmerged(83588)]

Thanks for the welcome!

Hehe... impossible, eh? That sounds like a challenge!

But perhaps it would be a pretty boring AAR if it was just peace from 1066 till the end of the game. It's something which has to be worked towards. So what I need - is ideas on how to achieve it. I've had a couple:

1) Conquer all of Europe and rule the vassals peacefully

2) Some sort of system of alliances with as many countries as possible.

What do you think?

P.S. Also thinking - instead of playing as England... maybe it would make more sense to play as... Bohemia. Hehe.

Peace

 

[Legolas]

Making alliances with more than one country is impossible in CK. Game mechanics, AFAIK And besides, alliances don't usually mean a thing.
What you could do (and write an interesting AAR about, though that would be a chalklenge) is forge dynasties and make yourself the inheritor of all thrones in Europe. That would also be impossible, because you can't inherit the throne of a country with different religion, but you could at least unite all Christian countries in this way. And with Deus Vult, this should much easier if only because of the information about inheritance lines available in the ledger.
In any case - good luck with this, I would definitely be following once you start.

 

[ComradeOm]

Welcome to the forums. To my mind there's two issues with an AAR that you describe:

1) The CK timeframe was an extremely violent period and the game models this fairly well. Being a strong solider was an integral aspect of being a good king.

2) An AAR with no war would be very difficult to keep interesting. The reverse, an attempt to conquer all of Europe, would just be another world conquest AAR, of which there are plenty.

What would be more interesting is the story of some overly pious noble struggling, and failing, to create a kingdom of heaven, or some such. Depending on how you wrote it, you could have this complete idealist struggling in the face of medieval reality.

 

[das]

I think I have an idea for how you could make it more interesting. DON'T leave out war; justification is that to build an utopia one has to break some eggs, and furthermore, "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing". In other words: unify the British Isles and build an utopia there, then become Europe's policeman, intervenning against particularily unsavoury continental monarchs and aggressors, but never really takingover any of their lands (at which point I must admit that I haven't played CK in years, but in the end you could simply conquer your enemies and then release them again). That would probably be end up as a never-ending struggle, ofcourse, but that should keep things interesting.

 

[unmerged(83588)]

Whoops! Thread moved - must have posted in the wrong section. You can tell I'm new... And I thought I'd read the forum guidelines properly.

What would be more interesting is the story of some overly pious noble struggling, and failing, to create a kingdom of heaven, or some such. Depending on how you wrote it, you could have this complete idealist struggling in the face of medieval reality.

That's a good idea! Maybe a monarch who has a noble dream of a fair and peaceful world: green meadows, the sound of birdsong, churchbells, a horse's hooves clip-clopping through cobbled streets, children laughing and playing in the town square beneath the statue of good King William.

Then, with the eastern sun come riders shouting "Hyah! Hyah!", spurring their horses down the sides of the valley and into the town. When they leave, the village is burnt and sacked and the people have been put to the sword. But as the kingdom burns, so too the dream burns in the heart of our wise, fair King.

The tragic hero invests in a building programme of universities, cathedrals and agricultural reforms, only to see his work picked apart by greedy vassals and jealous neighbours. In the name of pax dei - Peace of God - is he willing to go to any length?

Parallels to the great communist experiment in Russia? Or neoconservatism? Dreams of a benevolent empire turned to bloody conflict.

I think I have an idea for how you could make it more interesting. DON'T leave out war; justification is that to build an utopia one has to break some eggs, and furthermore, "all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".

That's definitely a possibility. I wonder if the monarchy (i.e. ME) will be strong enough to forge pax universalis. I don't really want to conquer the British Isles, though. I think the Irish and the Scots have had enough of the English conquering them. What would modern Britain be like if royal marriage united all the peoples instead. I think our King (or Queen) will have a strong defensive army (si vis pacem para bellum) and will try not to invade too much.

Is this actually possible? If not, I'm sure you'll all have fun reading about me failing miserably!

 

[das]

The thing about uniting the British Isles is that then there would be parallels with Atlantis. An unified insular utopia, an island of light in an ocean of darkness, and also a base for expeditions to bring justice to the war-torn continent.

Parallels to the great communist experiment in Russia? Or neoconservatism? Dreams of a benevolent empire turned to bloody conflict.

More of Revolutionary France, really. The Republic's downfall lies in the fact that it wasn't an island.

 

[unmerged(83588)]

I'm actually pretty excited by this project. Looking forward to Deus Vult coming out so I can get cracking. It's sort of breaking the game a bit, because I'm guessing it was designed to simulate war economies (which I suppose is understandable, given the period).

The thing about uniting the British Isles is that then there would be parallels with Atlantis. An unified insular utopia, an island of light in an ocean of darkness, and also a base for expeditions to bring justice to the war-torn continent.

I don't mind uniting the British Isles, as long as it's done through peace and love. Lot's of marriage, alliance and trade. Then it's all about spreading the love to mainland Europe.

Parallels to the great communist experiment in Russia? Or neoconservatism? Dreams of a benevolent empire turned to bloody conflict.

More of Revolutionary France, really. The Republic's downfall lies in the fact that it wasn't an island.

Cheka in Russia/Revolutionary Tribunal in France - red terror/la Terreur. I don't want to say they were both the same thing, but both Lenin and Robespierre justified the regime's actions with the promise of a future Utopia. I'm not going to break a few eggs to make an omelette - I'm going to have cereal instead. And not that sugary junk. I'm having whole-bran.

Anyhoo - drawing up a checklist of things I should do to create the perfect society in CK.

1) Transfer as much power as possible away from the nobility and the clergy and to the peasants and the burghers.

2) Emphasis on social and cultural technologies during research.

3) Emphasis on plenty of trade and low taxation.

4) Lot's of positive structures in towns - like universities.

5) Strong defensive armies to deal with the inevitable invasion.

6) Laws set to the most fair and equal options.

Anyone think of any more?

 

[unmerged(63202)]

Try to breed your rulers to have such traits as Just, Wise, Modest etc, just for roleplay purposes.

 

[unmerged(83588)]

Nice one!

And another: Always pick the fairest, most unselfish path during events.

There are some issues I'm still considering, despite my unwillingness to unite the British Isles by force (hehe... Das, FYI - I DO realise this is never going to work. Please feel free to laugh at me when I totally fail)

1) If a ruler is treating his subjects or his neighbours badly, does this give me the justification to invade? Jus ad bellum? For that matter - if I suspect a ruler is about to invade me or an ally (or has weapons of mass destruction programmes) can I invade? Bear in mind that the there was no UN in 1066, unless maybe the pope counts as the UN?)

2) Should I support the church by building religious buildings? It makes the people happy, but is it a corrupt institution and the opiate of the masses?

3) Should I make extensive use of spies? If yes - what about the issue of targeted assassination? Can I legitimately attempt to assassinate a ruler to avoid war or remove a despot?

4) What to do about crusades?

5) Is Pax Universalis intended only for Latin Christendom? If I show religious tolerance and allow Pagans, heretics, Muslims and Orthodox Christians to live in my lands, will their be violence? What will the pope do?

 

[elizibar]

Really, the only thing I can think that you should do is edit the savegame to give your character the Heretic trait. It'll make things a lot more difficult, and because of your 'crazy' ideas it'll kind of model the "WTF is wrong with him" that the rest of Europe would feel.

 

[unmerged(83588)]

Really, the only thing I can think that you should do is edit the savegame to give your character the Heretic trait. It'll make things a lot more difficult, and because of your 'crazy' ideas it'll kind of model the "WTF is wrong with him" that the rest of Europe would feel.

They called me mad! Maaaad! Mwahahaha! But who's 'crazy' now, huh? Mwah! Mwahahahahahaha! Ahem...

Actually, you might be right. Heretics were such a diverse and varied bunch of thinkers - Cathars, Bogomils, Paulicans (and those are only the ones I learned about from reading 'The Name of the Rose' - there were loads of heresies which didn't stem from Gnosticism). The Cathars remind me of medieval European Buddhists, and the Fraticelli are like communist guerrillas. I wish you could play legitimately as a Cathar. If I gave my character the Heretic trait, would I be able to spread it across Europe? Hmmm...

But I'm not convinced. The pax dei movement was Catholic, and it espoused non-violence (at least within Christendom). As long as I don't start renouncing holy matrimony and handing out psychotropics instead of wafers during communion (now THAT would be transubstantiation!) then I think I should be on okay footing with the pope.

Anyway - thanks for all the interest. Can anyone think of any similar AARs? I'd like to read what other people have written.

Peace

 

[unmerged(83588)]

Okay - to get a bit of practice at writing an AAR, to pass the time before Deus Vult comes out, and maybe to get people in the peace-loving mood, I've decided to start a short AAR project unrelated to Pax Universalis. It's based on the game Hidden Agenda by Jim Gasperini, an old game which came out in 1988 but which has now been made available for free to people who send Jim an e-mail and donate to a charity working in South America.

The game is currently in the "AAR General Discussion" forum, which is a place I don't think it belongs, but for some reason I'm not able to post anything in Off Topic. I hope it's okay to ask a mod to move it for me - I know it's very cheeky of me. If you have to delete it, then that's okay - I'll try and figure out why I'm not able to post in OT.

Cheers!
Joe