Pentarchy "Patriarch" Title Localisation Question

[Uroshnor]

I know it's now possible to mod different religions to use different holdings for the Pentarchy mechanic, but I can't find any way to vary the titles for the "Patriarchs" by specific religion. As far as I can tell, the only localisation key that governs that is AUTOCEPHALOUS_REL_HEAD_TITLE, and there don't seem to be separate keys for different religions.

I'd like to keep them as Patriarchs for the religions that use the Pentarchy mechanic in vanilla, but use different titles for other religions' Pentarchy title holders. Does anyone know if that's possible?

 

[Uroshnor]

Specifically, the reason I want to do this is because I want to add an "Exilarch" title to act as a Jewish religious head prior to the re-establishment of the High Priesthood. Since the Exilarch never held authority over the entirety of world Jewry, I thought it might be appropriate to use the Autocephaly mechanic.

However, the Autocephaly mechanic works on the kingdom level, and there were times when a single rabbi exercised authority over larger swaths of the Jewish community. So the Pentarchy mechanic seemed appropriate for that. I was thinking I'd have pentarchs in Baghdad (the Exilarch, with authority over Mesopotamian and Persian Jews), Jerusalem (for Levantine Jews), Mainz (for Ashkenazim), Cordoba (for Sephardim), and the fifth one I'm not sure about, but possibly Cairo (for North African Jews) or Constantinople (for Romaniote Jews).

It would be really inappropriate for them to be called Patriarchs, though - that's not a title that's ever been used in Judaism. So I'm looking to change it, but just for the Jews, not the Christians.

 

[Voltspark]

I actually figured out how to do this a couple days ago, working on an updated version of one of my old partially built mods. You have to override the AUTOCEPHALOUS_RELIGIOUS_HEAD_TITLE localisation with custom localisation. The game will scope to the character holding the title when evaluating the conditions, so you'd need to make a condition block that points to 'Exilarch' for Jewish pentarchs, and 'Patriarch' for everyone else. Presumably you could also use this to give Pentarchs a different title than normal autocephalous patriarchs as well.

I don't have access to my files right now, but I can post my script for doing this later. (There is some weird behavior with what appears to be some other Patriarch reference in the localisation though - the title holders will still be referred to as Patriarchs in the religious head line for the religion tooltip even though their title changes - haven't figured out where that one's coming from yet.)

 

[Uroshnor]

I actually figured out how to do this a couple days ago, working on an updated version of one of my old partially built mods. You have to override the AUTOCEPHALOUS_RELIGIOUS_HEAD_TITLE localisation with custom localisation. The game will scope to the character holding the title when evaluating the conditions, so you'd need to make a condition block that points to 'Exilarch' for Jewish pentarchs, and 'Patriarch' for everyone else. Presumably you could also use this to give Pentarchs a different title than normal autocephalous patriarchs as well.

I don't have access to my files right now, but I can post my script for doing this later. (There is some weird behavior with what appears to be some other Patriarch reference in the localisation though - the title holders will still be referred to as Patriarchs in the religious head line for the religion tooltip even though their title changes - haven't figured out where that one's coming from yet.)

That would be helpful, thanks!

 

[Voltspark]

Custom Localisation script:

defined_text = {
    name = afuhPatriarchTitle
    use_first_valid = yes
    
    text = {
        trigger = {
            religion = yazidi
        }
        localisation_key = yazidi_patriarch_title
    }
    text = {
        trigger = {
            NOT = { religion = yazidi }
        }
        localisation_key = normal_patriarch_title
    }
}

Alteration to v1_07.csv:

AUTOCEPHALOUS_REL_HEAD_TITLE;[afuhPatriarchTitle];Patriarche;Patriarch;;Patriarca;;;;;;;;;x

I left the localisation for non-English versions intact here, but this could be preserved using the localisation keys defined in the script.

I don't think I need to show my localisation keys here, since you already seem to know how to perform basic localisation.

 

[Uroshnor]

I don't think I need to show my localisation keys here, since you already seem to know how to perform basic localisation.

Yeah, I got it, thanks. I actually went ahead and coded up something similar in the meantime, although I didn’t use use_first_valid = yes. Can I ask why you put that there? It kinda seems unnecessary to me, since the logic involved is pretty binary, but maybe I’m missing something.

Also, does it work to just put [afuhPatriarchTitle] like that? I thought you had to do [Root.afuhPatriarchTitle] or whatever.

 

[Uroshnor]

Also also, do you know how to define the regions governed by each Pentarch, if they're in non-standard locations? That's something I haven't been able to find.

 

[Uroshnor]

Also, does it work to just put [afuhPatriarchTitle] like that? I thought you had to do [Root.afuhPatriarchTitle] or whatever.

Damn, I actually just tried it both ways and it didn't work either way. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Voltspark]

Damn, I actually just tried it both ways and it didn't work either way. Don't know what I'm doing wrong.

The code I posted is copied directly from my working files - check the encoding on your CSV file, maybe? The localisation files need to be encoded in the same format as vanilla.

As for why I used use_first_valid, currently I'm only adjusting stuff for the Yazidi religion, but the same mod will eventually be using autocephaly with a couple other religions that will need customized titles. That parameter is basically a break statement for only evaluating the script until it finds a match.

To set the jurisdiction of your exilarchs you'll need to add the line 'pentarch = <put the exilarch's landed title here>' to the history file for titles you want under their authority. As far as I've tested, it works down to county level, but if you set it for a higher level title, any lower title that is de jure part of that one will be treated as under the Pentarch. (I also haven't tested if it works on baronies yet, if you want to be even more specific)

Unfortunately it seems that the game doesn't log pentarchy jurisdiction for different religions - the support for different religions having different seats just enables and disables their authority depending on the religion, so you'll probably want to script something to change the pentarchy seat a title is under based on the religion of its holder, since some of your seats overlap the Orthodox pentarchy with slightly different sees. The command for changing this dynamically is 'set_pentarchy_title = <pentarch title goes here>' inside the title scope.

Aside from that, assuming you fix the problem with your version of the script, I've found something rather irritating while testing mine - the autocephalous patriarchs list in the religion tab and the councilor titles in the council tab don't seem to support custom localisation - they're displaying my custom localisation command rather than the customized title.

 

[Voltspark]

Spoiler: Screenshots

I may have just fumbled my way into a fix for the weird behavior with the interface - the set_special_character_title command is able to overwrite the Patriarch title for the Yazidi patriarchate I'm working on without using custom localisation. I'm still seeing some weird behavior if I fire the event that's setting the title for an Orthodox bishop, but I'm assuming that has something to do with Orthodoxy having preset localisation for bishops and the King and Emperor tier court chaplains referring to the Patriarch title string.

 

[Uroshnor]

Aside from that, assuming you fix the problem with your version of the script, I've found something rather irritating while testing mine - the autocephalous patriarchs list in the religion tab and the councilor titles in the council tab don't seem to support custom localisation - they're displaying my custom localisation command rather than the customized title.

That's actually the exact problem I was having. Setting the titles dynamically by event rather than using custom localization fixes that, though? Do you just fire the event from on_new_holder?

 

[Voltspark]

The set_special_character_title command doesn't seem to work in the autocephalous patriarchs list, but it works for the Pentarchy display, so if you want all of your Jewish rulers to be under an Exilarch, everything should display correctly, but it will look weird if they're able to have their own autocephalous Court Chaplain patriarch.

 

[Uroshnor]

The set_special_character_title command doesn't seem to work in the autocephalous patriarchs list, but it works for the Pentarchy display, so if you want all of your Jewish rulers to be under an Exilarch, everything should display correctly, but it will look weird if they're able to have their own autocephalous Court Chaplain patriarch.

Hmm. I'd actually consider the autocephaly part to be way more important than the pentarchy part, so unfortunately that's not very helpful.

 

[Uroshnor]

Spoiler: Screenshots

View attachment 497744 View attachment 497745 View attachment 497746

I may have just fumbled my way into a fix for the weird behavior with the interface - the set_special_character_title command is able to overwrite the Patriarch title for the Yazidi patriarchate I'm working on without using custom localisation. I'm still seeing some weird behavior if I fire the event that's setting the title for an Orthodox bishop, but I'm assuming that has something to do with Orthodoxy having preset localisation for bishops and the King and Emperor tier court chaplains referring to the Patriarch title string.

Actually, would you mind sharing your event code for this? It might end up being helpful anyway.