Petty Kingdoms of Westeros

[Rifal]

The people around the blackwater river would probably be Rivermen in the northern part and stormlanders in the southern parts considering these kingdoms held those regions for quite some time. And indeed they doo have these cultures in the Bleeding years start.

Duskendale should be its own kingdom, aswell as Masseys hook and the claw. Someone who unites all lands around the blackwater (both river and bay) should be able to form a Kingdom of The Blackwater.

 

[Almaron]

I agree for the Stormland part of it (especially considering that it'll help them back Stannis when he revolts, since they're the same cultural group), but the Riverland part, I'm not as sold...it's repeatedly noted in the historical segments that the Darklyns and Rosbys were Petty Kings, but it's only said that they were part of the Riverlands after one of the later Kings of the Rivers extended his rule to that part of Westeros. With the Kingdom of the Claw already a small Kingdom in the same area, I think we could add a Kingdom of Blackwater that can then be reworked into the Crownlands once Aegon shows up...

 

[Rifal]

That would work. But a Kingdom of masseys hook would be nice as it was a historical kingdom until it was conqured by the Storm Kings. That way there would be a kingdom in the Northern Crownlands (The Claw) Middle (Blackwater) and south (Masseys Hook)

 

[Almaron]

Hmm, could do, although I think the Duchy might be enough for that; representing it as a Petty Kingdom...or not; perhaps it would work in this proposed earlier start date.

On that note, this page could be quite useful; http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Hundred_Kingdoms

Also this note from the Crownlands page;

In the Age of Heroes, the petty kings of House Darklyn ruled much of the future crownlands, from Duskendale toCrackclaw Point. Although neighboring realms forced them to swear fealty and their lands changed hands many times over the years, the Darklyns remained one of the more influential houses of the region. In the days of the Hundred Kingdoms, the mouth of the Blackwater was claimed by the Darklyns, the Masseys of Stonedance, and the river kings of Houses Mudd, Fisher, Bracken, Blackwood, and Hook.[

 

[Rifal]

There you go then
Thats pretty much all the information you will ever need.

 

[Almaron]

Hmm, the further back we go, the more elaborate some of the De Jure borders might end up! I was reading the section on the Kingdom of the Rivers and Hills (one of the Riverland titles), and apparently the "Hills" component referred to the eastern parts of the Westerlands that used to be a part of the Riverlands, but which were annexed in Andal times! Interesting...

 

[MuchAndMore]

Please make this happen, this concept sounds fantastic.

Just a thought: Would county conquest be allowed under certain circumstances, or will realms expand in all the orthodox ways (marriage, claims etc)

 

[Rifal]

NO COUNTY CONQUEST! I hate that! The AI just ends up giving them away to sons witch makes interesting families landless.
A Subjugation CB would be much better, that way you make them your vassals rather than just take their land. Much more Lore Friendly and it means you have to put some effort into making your new vassals accept your rule.

The CB should also only be available to rulers with some prestige (Your bannermen are not gonna follow you if they consider you a bratty little shit) and the ambitious trait (otherwise, why would you go of and conquer new land.

There is a easy way to do this by simply removing the "once per lifetime" flag from the "expand realm by conquest" ambition.

 

[ParrotGuy]

NO COUNTY CONQUEST! I hate that! The AI just ends up giving them away to sons witch makes interesting families landless.
A Subjugation CB would be much better, that way you make them your vassals rather than just take their land. Much more Lore Friendly and it means you have to put some effort into making your new vassals accept your rule.

The CB should also only be available to rulers with some prestige (Your bannermen are not gonna follow you if they consider you a bratty little shit) and the ambitious trait (otherwise, why would you go of and conquer new land.

There is a easy way to do this by simply removing the "once per lifetime" flag from the "expand realm by conquest" ambition.

I tried once giving many lords kingdoms via console and use the observer to watch how it unfolds. There were almost no wars expect of rebellions, which is boring. I agree about no county conquest, however there should be something that all the independent rulers would have, like county subjugation if is it's possible or, if not, duchy subjugation.

 

[KaiserRichter]

Yes yes yes. This scenario needs to happen. I've been playing the Winter King mod too much and I've fantasized about a period of the GOT mod based around the Andal invasion.

 

[SBerger]

A duchy conquest wouldn't work in my opinion. The traditional capitals like Highgarden, Casterly Rock, or Shipbreaker Bay would steamroll over everyone because they can summon so much people on their own. People like Oldtown or White Harbour could resist for some time, but when when the Lannisters, Starks, or Durrandons conquer everyone around them, we'll just end up with another Seven Kingdoms scenario.

 

[Rifal]

A duchy conquest wouldn't work in my opinion. The traditional capitals like Highgarden, Casterly Rock, or Shipbreaker Bay would steamroll over everyone because they can summon so much people on their own. People like Oldtown or White Harbour could resist for some time, but when when the Lannisters, Starks, or Durrandons conquer everyone around them, we'll just end up with another Seven Kingdoms scenario.

This could easily be remedied by simple scaling down the superpowerful castles from the LVL6 they start as to LVL3 or 4. (how hard is this to edit, any one with modding knowledge who knows?)

Thus they would be roughly equal in power or slightly stronger than the other duchies, and lets face it. They should be a bit stronger than the others. There is a reason they ended up being the capitals of their respective kingdoms.

County subjugation CB to subjugate independent c_xxx tier rules makes sense and then you would have a Duchy subjugation and Kingdom subjugation so that for example k_winterfell can subjugate k_dreadfort and thus have d_dreadfort as a vassal. This happened a lot canon.