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Feb 14, 2010
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I started as Count of Telemark in the 1066 scenario, and by 1218 the dynasty have 5 kingdom titles (Norway,Sweden,Denmark,Scotland and the Isles).

The problem is I take a 11 piety per month loss on the crusades. Freeing Byzantioum is not that easy from my position. And even when I had control of four of the seven demense provinces held by the muslim ruler, including Byzantioum, he wouldnt agree to part with Byzantioum.

What to do? I am on my third try and just got the realm duress event again due to the prolonged war on the crusades.

Should I concentrate on just taking Bagdad (capital) and Byzantioum? will the muslims be more open to part with Byzantioum then? or do I have to control every demense province the muslim ruler has?....that seems more of a mission impossible considering they are so far apart and the attrition, realm duress issue.

Playing on weakling/very hard

Great game, and glad to be a member of the forum
 
I think it will be difficult to free Bizantium unless you control all his demesne. Maybe you should fight heathens closer to you, by 1218 I assume the baltic pagans have been destroyed but there may be some left in the East, you will gain less piety but if you have more provinces where you can build churches you could maintain a positive piety until the crusade ends.
 
11?? .. that is alot ... but since it depends on strength and size, I guess the Pope is in his good right to expect you to be a fearsome crusader because of your size.

You basically need to get all the personal demesne of the muslim who controls Byzantion, before he will release it. It is most likely his most profitable province.

Raise enough of your troops to not be in negative monthly income, then raise all vassal troops, and move on Asia Minor.

Nobody said the crusades were easy. To keep up with the prestige loss, feel free to war on any nearby muslim vassals and minor realms as you move along. Winning against religious enemies during a crusade gives extra piety ... even more if you have the 'Crusader' trait.

If you are using DV expansion, you can just force-vassalize the realms you conquer on your way, for no or little BB. If you don't care about the provinces, just leave them be afterwards and they will eventually leave your realm.
 
Yes all the baltic pagans are far gone. Before the newest version that would be better I think, but with a 11 piety loss per month until Byzantioum are free it seems like I have no choice.

I get not so much piety fighting other pagans now it seems, and also taking a reputation hit if taking over their province.

I would almost have to take a new province per month not to have a negativ piety.

Maybe a big scale vassalage of neighbouring muslim provinces?..though loyalty would maybe be a problem?

On the positiv side they have about 110k units, and I have about 280k.

But attrition and realm duress makes it a bit of a challenge.
 
TempestDK said:
11?? .. that is alot ... but since it depends on strength and size, I guess the Pope is in his good right to expect you to be a fearsome crusader because of your size.

You basically need to get all the personal demesne of the muslim who controls Byzantion, before he will release it. It is most likely his most profitable province.

Raise enough of your troops to not be in negative monthly income, then raise all vassal troops, and move on Asia Minor.

Nobody said the crusades were easy. To keep up with the prestige loss, feel free to war on any nearby muslim vassals and minor realms as you move along. Winning against religious enemies during a crusade gives extra piety ... even more if you have the 'Crusader' trait.

If you are using DV expansion, you can just force-vassalize the realms you conquer on your way, for no or little BB. If you don't care about the provinces, just leave them be afterwards and they will eventually leave your realm.
Click to expand...

Yes TempestDK that pope expect alot from my nothern reign;) I loose so much manpower just getting there, not to mention staying in the area.

I will try a vassalage approach, maybe having one ore two provinces in the area and give them to family members, and go from there.

My last ruler got almost 2000 negativ piety, and the current one was almost born with the crusader trait. So it has to end before my rulers get ruiened by the high expectations.

Any advice on how to get higher stability? realm duress kicks in fairly soon as my troops hit the shores of minor asia
 
Okay so I managed to free Byzantion, but still the pope continue the crusade to free the province.

I didnt get any piety doing so, and still I loose 8 piety per month. Maybe its due to the fact that the hungarians controlled the province when the muslims agreed to hand it over to me?
 
BenReck said:
Okay so I managed to free Byzantion, but still the pope continue the crusade to free the province. I didnt get any piety doing so, and still I loose 8 piety per month. Maybe its due to the fact that the hungarians controlled the province when the muslims agreed to hand it over to me?
Click to expand...
I think piety is given when you successfully siege a province controlled by heathens. Crusades start and end by events, so you may have to wait before the crusade stops even when the target is free. I think it will happen sooner if the provinces near the target are also ruled by christians.
 
Crusader trait really forces you to crusade, so like others said taking their demense is the key to the victory.

And when it comes to vassals, if you have bad boy try to get rid of it by giving titles to your vassals or by recognising claims in peace negotiations while force vassalizing rebelling count or duke. If someone peacefully declares indpendence don't declare war against him, because there's chance that he will ask later to become your vassal or you can reconquer the lands when the crusade is over.

Besides getting rid of bad boy you can always bribe your vassals. Even if you don't have money you can send bribes of hundred ducats, although soon you'll be in great debt. Laws and scutage also affect to the loyalty of your vassals, so if you can afford it, don't ask any money from your vassals.
 
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I was just about to say that 11 sounds really high, even for 5 kingdoms (and especially for those 5), *unless* you have the crusader trait... which you do.

Don't let your next heir get crusader, and/or pray the crusades end :p

Realm duress isn't related to how long you're at war or how far your armies are. Disloyal vassals cause it (taking their troops will annoy them a bit, but shouldn't make them rebel on its own), being at war will make it last longer though.
 
kadvael56 said:
I think piety is given when you successfully siege a province controlled by heathens. Crusades start and end by events, so you may have to wait before the crusade stops even when the target is free. I think it will happen sooner if the provinces near the target are also ruled by christians.
Click to expand...

Then pretty soon I hope. The Hungarians control the province near Byzantion now, and with the muslim ruler loosing Byzantion and now only controlling 3 demenses for himself he is in trouble. He currently is at war with many of the major western powers
 
Olaus Petrus said:
Crusader trait really forces you to crusade, so like others said taking their demense is the key to the victory.

And when it comes to vassals, if you have bad boy try to get rid of it by giving titles to your vassals or by recognising claims in peace negotiations while force vassalizing rebelling count or duke. If someone peacefully declares indpendence don't declare war against him, because there's chance that he will ask later to become your vassal or you can reconquer the lands when the crusade is over.

Besides getting rid of bad boy you can always bribe your vassals. Even if you don't have money you can send bribes of hundred ducats, although soon you'll be in great debt. Laws and scutage also affect to the loyalty of your vassals, so if you can afford it, don't ask any money from your vassals.
Click to expand...

I had a respectable reputation, but had to take a hit and get slightly tarnised to free Byzantion. I dont want to give away my strong provinces to my current family titles holders, and await the oldest son coming of age so I can give one to him. (2 years)

In that way I can marry him of to whom I want, and the current titles holders dont get to powerful.

I dont have money problems now. I have about 16k any earning 170d a month. But I will take your advice on not rushing to war on provinces declaring independence far from my reign if it cost BB to vassalise them again.
 
Snaake said:
I was just about to say that 11 sounds really high, even for 5 kingdoms (and especially for those 5), *unless* you have the crusader trait... which you do.

Don't let your next heir get crusader, and/or pray the crusades end :p

Realm duress isn't related to how long you're at war or how far your armies are. Disloyal vassals cause it (taking their troops will annoy them a bit, but shouldn't make them rebel on its own), being at war will make it last longer though.
Click to expand...

Is their a chance to be excommunicated if you dont choose the crusade trait? that could really be even worse with my strong neighbours getting claims on me and DOW me.

The vassals seems loyal enough, but I get many events triggering they dont support my war etc...then out of the blue one province declear independence and the realm duress event occur. If Im not engaged at war I get the opposite. How satisfied they are under the current rule.

What triggers realm duress? and how can I get better stability?

Thanks for your advice
 
A nice easy way to gain tons of piety: Beat up as many wimpy vassals of the crusade target's ruler as you have bishops and turn their provinces into bishoprics. Doesn't matter if they can survive there for more than a few days. If the muslims kick them out, the precious bishops will return to your court for further (ab)use and you keep your piety.

I still fondly remember that particular crusade to Antiocheia (easy target, I know) as the king of Bohemia. Took Antiocheia, gave it to my diocese bishop, cashed in the piety reward and went home. Weeks later, the muslims shipped him back to my court all plastered up. Went back, took Antiocheia again, gave it to the same bishop... you can guess the rest. In a single crusade, I put the same bishop on the same province four times. Almost started feeling sorry for him, but damn it, I was a living saint.
You may have guessed it: I don't like clerics. :D
 
BenReck said:
I had a respectable reputation, but had to take a hit and get slightly tarnised to free Byzantion. I dont want to give away my strong provinces to my current family titles holders, and await the oldest son coming of age so I can give one to him. (2 years)

In that way I can marry him of to whom I want, and the current titles holders dont get to powerful.

I dont have money problems now. I have about 16k any earning 170d a month. But I will take your advice on not rushing to war on provinces declaring independence far from my reign if it cost BB to vassalise them again.
Click to expand...

Slightly tarnished isn't bad reputation. As long as you have king or duke title over the area where someone declares independece peacefully by event there's chance that they offer to become your vassals again. When at war it's not good thing to start new wars against them, because it divides your forces. Besides reputation you have to consider prestige, because negative prestige affects to loyalty.

Force vassalization gives very little bad boy and if you have a lot of prestige you can recognise their claims while making peace where you vassalize them, outcome is that you lose prestige, but gain reputation. But if you have little prestige and relatively good reputation then don't recognise their claims when you force vassalize them. Easier peace terms you give to enemy more prestige you gain (as long as you're winner in the peace negotiations. Giving up some of your claims is negative for prestige, but not doing anything to those claims gives you prestige if you gain something else in the peace negotiations.). Taking provinces gives a lot more bad reputation, but even that can be balanced by recognising some of their claims. By force vassalizing former vassal or any other enemy against whom you have several claims or who have a lot of claims to your titles can give huge amount of prestige if you leave those claims unused (don't claim or recognise those titles). Sometimes it feels almost like exploit when you can gain thousands of prestige in single peace deal.
 
Thanks for the advice guys:) The crusade finished a couple of years later. Now my ruler finally have a positiv piety. And the muslims will have a hard time taking over Byzantion. That province alone can raise 40k units;)
 
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