Pirate Republic Government form

[Canute VII]

{New and updated content, old suggestion to be found further down the thread}

Maybe the Name of this Government type can be modified, depending on in which super-region its capital is: e.g. "Pirate Republic" for the Americas, "Wokou Federation" for China/the Far East, "Orang laut" for the East Indies, ...

Government modifiers for "Pirate Federations"
▪+10% naval moral
▪+10% capture ship chance (or -10% naval maintenance)
▪may raid coasts
(Optional: a migration mechanic similar to native councils would be cool, since it would fit wokou/orang laut)

The rise and fall of these Federations will ride on how well they are able to win over the buccaneers and seamen of the region who are fickle to the successes and failures of the Federation. By winning (naval) battles and trade wars, a Pirate Federation is able to increase their Naval Allegiance which will in turn grant stronger bonuses for the country. Conversely, losing battles and trade wars is a fast track to losing their support and bonuses.

Naval Allegiance itself will grant no bonuses at zero, but up to +33% privateering efficiency and +10% sailor recovery speed as it grows. It will degrade over time relative to your development (degrades at a higher rate than for tribal federations, though). Additionally, it can be spent to gain immediate assistance, with each action costing 30 Allegiance. :

• Enlist dissatisfied/deserted officers: Gain Admiral with 40 Tradition
• Enforce pirate code: Get +15% light ship Combat Ability for 10 years.
• Capture merchant vessels: Start production of 6 light ships in the capital at 25% build time.

As the "may raid coasts" ability this government type grants can only be used agaist other religions, the pirates of the carribean - should they arise - may struggle to find applicable targets (elsewhere in the world pirates will likely have an easier time). Thus they could have a decision to adopt a "secular" state religion (e.g. "atheist") which would be a new and separate religious group (without any new mechanics, though). Having adopted this new state religion, a carribean pirate republic then could raid coast on everyone else in the carribean - for the cost of being alone in its group and having no religious mechanics.

 

[Lysistrata]

Pirates weren't necessarily atheistic though. IIRC many of them were Jacobite Catholics. Although I guess it would be weird to have pirate republics backing cardinals and stuff.

Maybe rename atheist to secular and make it unable to spread its religion? If a province somehow ends up "secular", like through colonisation, have events to convert the province to a religion followed by another province of the same culture, or group, in the unlikely event it's the only one of it's culture. A secular religion would also of course have applications outside pirates, certainly for some late game tags like Revolutionary France.

 

[Canute VII]

Pirates weren't necessarily atheistic though. IIRC many of them were Jacobite Catholics. Although I guess it would be weird to have pirate republics backing cardinals and stuff.

Yes, that's certainly true for state sponsored privateers. The non-state sponsered sort probably had no religious inclinations, whatsoever. The religion also has to work for different regions of the world, like carribean as well as the south china sea or indonesia....

An alternative would of course ne to assign some other Religion based on region etc., but that would not properly represent the often multi-cultural, multi-religious nature of pirate crews. After all "state Religion" and "religion of individuals" must not necessarily be the same.

 

[moscal]

atheist (new religious group)

Barbary pirates was muslims (often christians converted into islam).

For "Republic of Pirates" main religion was protestantism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Pirates

 

[moscal]

Surely not in China.

Therefore "Pirate republic" shouldn't have special religion. Should be based on regional religion or religion of vaterland of first leader. Tolerances and others can be doing be events or national ideas.

 

[Canute VII]

Therefore "Pirate republic" shouldn't have special religion. Should be based on regional religion or religion of vaterland of first leader. Tolerances and others can be doing be events or national ideas.

If You Read your Wikipedia article to The end and also followed the references given therein, you'd understand. Religion just wasn't important to pirate communities, neither was nationality.

Ps: Provincial Religion <> State Religion. Provincial Religion can still be catholic, protestant, etc. etc.

 

[moscal]

If You Read your Wikipedia article to The end and also followed the references given therein, you'd understand. Religion just wasn't important to pirate communities, neither was nationality.

And what? In EU4 even rev. France is catholic, but IRL was extremal anti-religious. Low level of importance had place also in many hordes or far east states or central african states, but EU4 haven't separate religion "deism" or "ignorance" or whatever. Also USA haven't official religion, but in EU4 have.

Why pirate states should be special?

 

[Canute VII]

And what? In EU4 even rev. France is catholic, but IRL was extremal anti-religious. Low level of importance had place also in many hordes or far east states or central african states, but EU4 haven't separate religion "deism" or "ignorance" or whatever.

Having an existant Religion as state religion would give them access to religious mechanics, which would be more than weird. Pirate cardinals, pirate papal influence, pirate church power, pirate legalism...??? They could of course change their state Religion if the player so wishes.

 

[moscal]

Having an existant Religion as state religion would give them access to religious mechanics, which would be more than weird. Pirate cardinals, pirate papal influence, pirate church power, pirate legalism...??? They could of course change their state Religion if the player so wishes.

Pirate taxes, pirate customs officials, pirate obligatory army service...

 

[Canute VII]

Pirate taxes, pirate customs officials, pirate obligatory army service...

"pirate codes", cough, cough

 

[Canute VII]

http://cindyvallar.com/Religion.html

Some more info about pirates and religion showing that the relationship was complex at least. However, for the sake of gameplay we have to abstract from that. Therefore: Privateer -> religious, pirate -> none-religious

 

[moscal]

"pirate codes", LOL

"Codes" aren't ex definitione connected with state organisation. "Chivalric code" wasn't this same like a "Napoleonic code"; also pirate code eg. of Bartholomew. This is more "descripted customary law".

Some more info about pirates and religion showing that the relationship was complex at least. However, for the sake of gameplay we have to abstract from that. Therefore: Privateer -> religious, pirate -> none-religious

False. Jean Bart wasn't religious (as reformed join to service for ultra-catholic French king) but was privateer. Barbaric pirates was religious - other fate was for muslims, other for christians. Zaporozhye Cossacks was also pirates, but had great focus on orthodoxy. This few examples, but this isn't rule. Always this was individual aspect.

Privateer - naval robber who have letter of marque. Pirate - naval robber who haven't letter of marque. Not more - not less. Lack deeper ideology or whatever.

 

[Canute VII]

"Codes" aren't ex definitione connected with state organisation. "Chivalric code" wasn't this same like a "Napoleonic code"; also pirate code eg. of Bartholomew. This is more "descripted customary law".


False. Jean Bart wasn't religious (as reformed join to service for ultra-catholic French king) but was privateer. Barbaric pirates was religious - other fate was for muslims, other for christians. Zaporozhye Cossacks was also pirates, but had great focus on orthodoxy. This few examples, but this isn't rule. Always this was individual aspect.

Privateer - naval robber who have letter of marque. Pirate - naval robber who haven't letter of marque. Not more - not less. Lack deeper ideology or whatever.

I'm missing your point, if there is one.

 

[Canute VII]

Pirates weren't necessarily atheistic though. IIRC many of them were Jacobite Catholics. Although I guess it would be weird to have pirate republics backing cardinals and stuff.

Maybe rename atheist to secular and make it unable to spread its religion? If a province somehow ends up "secular", like through colonisation, have events to convert the province to a religion followed by another province of the same culture, or group, in the unlikely event it's the only one of it's culture. A secular religion would also of course have applications outside pirates, certainly for some late game tags like Revolutionary France.

maybe the government form could also give -1 missionaries? That would prevent them from spreading the state religion to the provincial level.

And if there's a naming convention other than "atheism", more appropriate for the time frame, then why not?

 

[Canute VII]

edited, updated first post:

• reworked religion
• removed "national ideas", since I believe this "pirate abilities and flavour" be better reprented by the mission system. The pirate republic will retain its former national ideas if it was formed by decision and will be assigned the generic ideas of the culture/culture group to which its capital province belongs if formed by event.

Spoiler: national ideas

pirate republic generic national ideas
▪tradition: +10% sailors recovery speed, , +33% privateer efficiency
▪ideas
former marine officers: +15% light ship combat ability, +20% available sailors
silent hunt: 10% capture ship chance
pirate havens: +33% naval force limit
flexible outposts: -50% migration cooldown, 1 colonist
multinational crews: +10% trade steering
A new society: +3 tolerance of the true faith
masters of the seas: +10% heavy ship combat ability
▪ambition: +5% recover navy moral speed

missions
A1 aim: create a pirate confederation, reward: +10% sailors recovery speed until 1820 (formerly: national tradition)
A2 aim: secure fleet basing rights with another nation, reward: +33% naval force limit for 50 years (formerly: pirate havens)
A3 aim: raid coast re a center of trade, reward: +10% trade steering for 15 years (formerly: multinational crews)
A4 aim: own a province with at least 10 development, reward: +3 tolerance of the true faith for 30 years (formerly: A new society)

B1 aim: have at least 10 light ships, reward: +5% recover navy moral speed (formerly: national ambition)
B2 aim: earn 10 ducats through "spoils of war", reward: +15% light ship combat ability for 25 years (formerly: former marine officers)
B3 aim: build 5 heavy ships, reward: +10% heavy ship combat ability for 15 years (formerly: masters of the seas)

• moved privateer efficiency to "raiders faction" (formerly: national tradition)
• moved capture ship chance to crew unity (formerly: silent hunt)

 

[Canute VII]

Tagging @Groogy now, 'cause me thinks he would be able to champion the "merchant hord of the seas". Of course, I could also be mistaken...

 

[Groogy]

I would love to see something more fun with Pirates than just our Privateer mechanic. I'm listening to the AC4 Black Flag's sea shanties as we speak actually...




Pirates are cool! Okay....


Though for a game like EU4, fitting in a state like that is going to be hard while keeping it fun. Plus it is such a small part of the game it would be hard pressed to find motivation to put the resources in to create entire new systems for it.

 

[Dakka]

Having an existant Religion as state religion would give them access to religious mechanics, which would be more than weird. Pirate cardinals, pirate papal influence, pirate church power, pirate legalism...??? They could of course change their state Religion if the player so wishes.

Or they could have the same modifier Rev. does and not gain religious power to spend in the first place

Though for a game like EU4, fitting in a state like that is going to be hard while keeping it fun. Plus it is such a small part of the game it would be hard pressed to find motivation to put the resources in to create entire new systems for it.

Agreed. While I enjoy pirate history and I would love to see them better represented in EU4 (I have my own pirate thread as a WIP), I don’t think this is the way to go. A pirate republic would be a doomed state that would make even an Aztec blush, and a player should want to destroy it rather than become one. It would probably be better as an event-spawned nation that acts as a threat to the various colonia empires’ trade.

 

[Canute VII]

I would love to see something more fun with Pirates than just our Privateer mechanic. I'm listening to the AC4 Black Flag's sea shanties as we speak actually...




Pirates are cool! Okay....


Though for a game like EU4, fitting in a state like that is going to be hard while keeping it fun. Plus it is such a small part of the game it would be hard pressed to find motivation to put the resources in to create entire new systems for it.

Yes, they are cool!

I definitely understand all the reasons why you wouldn't include a pirate mechanic on top of the existing privateers, though. Even if I feel that my suggestion heavily lends from existing game mechanics (trading cities, tengri religion, tribal confederation, tribal migration, faction system), I don't know how much code could be copied & pasted and how much would have to be newly written. Certainly the trained eye of an experienced game designer sees more pitfalls than that of a mere enthusiast (and hopefully the designer also knows how to overcome these obstacles ).

But well, that's what sets paradox games apart from others - that love for filling the holes and that attention to detail...

On one point I have to slightly and most respectfully disagree, though. From the wouku pirates of the east and south china sea right from the 15th and 16th century on to the carribean corsairs and buccaneers of the 17th and 18th century, pirates played a pivotal role in molesting the great empires of Ming, Spain and others to the point that they were distracted from effective empire building. Thus while being a small part of the game in what concerns playable tags, adding this part could be invaluable as well for game balance and historical flavour.

For the final words I hand over to someone whom was given not the gift of nagging but of inspiring others:
“We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things (accomplishments and aspirations), not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.”

I hope my little sermon helped a bit in building resolution.

 

[Canute VII]

Or they could have the same modifier Rev. does and not gain religious power to spend in the first place

mhm, yes... interesting..

Agreed. While I enjoy pirate history and I would love to see them better represented in EU4 (I have my own pirate thread as a WIP), I don’t think this is the way to go. A pirate republic would be a doomed state that would make even an Aztec blush, and a player should want to destroy it rather than become one. It would probably be better as an event-spawned nation that acts as a threat to the various colonia empires’ trade.

Oh, I suggest that it can be spawned by event, although I do not go into the details of the event triggers. If I got it right in future the "cossacks independence" will allow the player to play a cossack state. Maybe something like this for pirates?

When I think about it, the wouku and orang laut could maybe even alteady exist in the 1444 start.