Planet development is broken (v4)

[Deshiba]

That was the point of the other commenter I agreed with and said I had previously complained about. That's what you commented on, so I don't care to turn it into a discussion on the general use of building slots.

Uhm, i don't feel I'm taking anything out of context:

I directly responded to this. The statement is as above.

The reason people aren't complaining about this lack of flexibility is that the system is a massive improvement over what we had to work with. Comparing 3.x.x to 4.x.x we can do a lot more now in the ways I've layed out before.

The only reason i can fathom someone could perceive the changes as less flexible is if you've played a BETA build where there were 3 district specializations possible, all improvable on their own. < But this is not what the majority of players is experiencing.

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I don't feel pointing out this cognitive dissonance is out of place or wrong, or "turning it into a discussion on the general use of building slots. The building slots is the only thing the systems have in common, where this system is a massive improvement in flexibility

 

[Red Death]

The only reason i can fathom someone could perceive the changes as less flexible is if you've played a BETA build where there were 3 district specializations possible, all improvable on their own. < But this is not what the majority of players is experiencing.

This was never in the beta, so clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't feel pointing out this cognitive dissonance is out of place or wrong, or "turning it into a discussion on the general use of building slots. The building slots is the only thing the systems have in common, where this system is a massive improvement in flexibility

Your inability to understand what others are thinking is not "pointing out cognitive dissonance".

I will try one more time:

3.14:
You can produce alloys/consumergoods, research and unity all on one planet in relevant numbers, in any ratio you want
4.0:
You can produce alloys/consumergoods, research and unity all on one planet in relevant numbers, but only in specific pre-determined ratios (only slightly modified by wasting building slots instead of using them for efficiency)

Nobody is demanding that you agree, but can you at least recognise that for some people, 4.0 is in some ways less flexible?

 

[Revengeance_oov]

And withthose you see the same trend of people building 3 1/X districts just for the building slots.

Yes, Ecus (and I guess Hives and Machine Worlds since they have the same basic framework) should have double specializations in their bottom rows.

This was never in the beta, so clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your inability to understand what others are thinking is not "pointing out cognitive dissonance".

I will try one more time:

3.14:
You can produce alloys/consumergoods, research and unity all on one planet in relevant numbers, in any ratio you want
4.0:
You can produce alloys/consumergoods, research and unity all on one planet in relevant numbers, but only in specific pre-determined ratios (only slightly modified by wasting building slots instead of using them for efficiency)

Nobody is demanding that you agree, but can you at least recognise that for some people, 4.0 is in some ways less flexible?

The claim about 3.14 is incorrect. You could not scale CGs and alloys independently (now you can produce 1/4 CGs 3/4 alloys, for example), nor could you scale research beyond the building slots (11 per planet, always), whereas you could scale alloys to the district limit. Only Machine worlds and Ecus could scale unity. etc.

 

[Red Death]

Yes, Ecus (and I guess Hives and Machine Worlds since they have the same basic framework) should have double specializations in their bottom rows.

The claim about 3.14 is incorrect. You could not scale CGs and alloys independently (now you can produce 1/4 CGs 3/4 alloys, for example), nor could you scale research beyond the building slots (11 per planet, always), whereas you could scale alloys to the district limit. Only Machine worlds and Ecus could scale unity. etc.

Yeah, that's why I grouped alloys/cgs together, sorry if that was not clear.

And yes, you could scale research up independently from alloys... up to that max building limit. Yes that limit was there, but at least you could for example increase your alloy production on a planet without increasing the research jobs.

I'm not saying 3.14 was overall better. But this core element of 4.0 is very annoying.

 

[Enero]

Yes, Ecus (and I guess Hives and Machine Worlds since they have the same basic framework) should have double specializations in their bottom rows.

The claim about 3.14 is incorrect. You could not scale CGs and alloys independently (now you can produce 1/4 CGs 3/4 alloys, for example), nor could you scale research beyond the building slots (11 per planet, always), whereas you could scale alloys to the district limit. Only Machine worlds and Ecus could scale unity. etc.

I personally do not necessarily speak about 3.14 . It was not ideal. I would like to enhance the old system and to have a lot of district types. I think it will be much better than what we have now.

 

[Dragonsteel82]

Are these really an issue? They just increase the value of your first Basic Resource District of each type per Planet by 66% base output, I think those Pops would still be better employed on a dedicated world, but if you want to spend the Minerals to have a bit more local production I don't see the issue.

What I see that makes one-of-each-Basic-District an issue and feel almost mandatory to do is that it frees your Research Enclave Slots from building the Research support Buildings, allowing you to fit 6 more tier three Labs on any mundane Tech World as long as they have at least one of each of the most common Districts in the game. It's a lot of power for something pretty much all Planets in the Galaxy can do with a small amount of investment.

What if all building limits are 1 unless placed inside a district of appropriate type? So no more double research buildings unless they are built in the research l, archives or suitable district?

 

[Deshiba]

This was never in the beta, so clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Your inability to understand what others are thinking is not "pointing out cognitive dissonance".

I will try one more time:

3.14:
You can produce alloys/consumergoods, research and unity all on one planet in relevant numbers, in any ratio you want
4.0:
You can produce alloys/consumergoods, research and unity all on one planet in relevant numbers, but only in specific pre-determined ratios (only slightly modified by wasting building slots instead of using them for efficiency)

Nobody is demanding that you agree, but can you at least recognise that for some people, 4.0 is in some ways less flexible?

You can still do this. It will go at the cost of efficiency, but nothing is stopping you from building urban districts to get the 3.14 experience.

It's even better in 4.0 because the rural districts have bonus building slots and specialization to play around with.

Either way 11 build slots is 11 build slots. The output for the buildings is relatively unchanged.

 

[Red Death]

You can still do this. It will go at the cost of efficiency, but nothing is stopping you from building urban districts to get the 3.14 experience.

Either way 11 build slots is 11 build slots.

...No? The district system and building slot system are completely changed. You have 5 slots to put research labs in,which you are supposed to use for other general buildings, or you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

You can build them in one of the city specialisations, if you made them into Archives or Research specialisations. That gives the "can't increase alloys without increasing research effect" to the planet that I mentioned before, so this is not a valid answer. The same goes for the other 9 building slots in the basic resource districts.

You can do it, by deliberately playing terribly, that's not just some efficiency cost.

The output for the buildings is relatively unchanged.

Absolutely not, how could you think that? Research districts exist everywhere now, so obviously using building slots for research labs is relatively weaker.

I already broke my one more time pledge, but I'll try again to hold myself to it after this.

 

[WoodenP]

I personally do not necessarily speak about 3.14 . It was not ideal. I would like to enhance the old system and to have a lot of district types. I think it will be much better than what we have now.

You are, of course, absolutely correct. All 4.0 needed to do was add a couple of new district types. That's it. People would have been pumped.

Fewer bugs, more time for other areas of 4.0, a balance pass would have happened fairly early, and we would be sorted already. This thread wouldn't exist. All the energy and focus/attention would be going on other more meaningful and exciting concepts (see all the diaries from just before Christmas, discussion of which has evaporated).

But you need to get over it I'm afraid. PDX aren't ever going back.

 

[Enero]

But you need to get over it I'm afraid. PDX aren't ever going back.

The new system is really bad. And PDX is not afraid to change their approach. We as a community can only push the devs in the right direction. I think it is important to be vocal and maybe a new game director will listen

 

[jedavis]

A bit of a comment on rares : the production numbers are ludicrous while upkeep hasn't changed. You'll just immediately shoot to massive overproduction once you've built refineries on an industrial world.

My opinion is that there should be two ways to produce rares : resource-efficient but building slot inefficient and the reverse. Like basic resource district buildings that don't produce too much but cost little to use (the old style crystalline mines etc) and the refineries (can be like they are but either the cost should be higher or production lesser, or both).

Though perhaps the intent was that these resources should be rather trivial once you unlock the tech?

My forge machine world came online this evening and the impact of suddenly producing 400ish each of motes, gas, and crystal per month on my diplo weight from economy was... unexpected. Went from about 20k diplo weight to 30k and basically locked in my bid for custodianship. I like refining as the primary means of producing strategics, but having it scale with my alloy production is pretty ridiculous.