Playing as a vassal

[KonradRichtmark]

Wanting more of a challenge, I just started my first game where I start as a vassal. I'm the duke of Uppland, vassal of the Swedish king. I chose the duchy since I figured it would be well placed for expansion towards Finland, perhaps even crowning myself the King of Finland one day.

However, whenever I declare war on some heathen state, the king joins in. And as soon as I've defeated the enemy field army, they begin begging for peace. Which won't do for me, I want their land. Yet, the king is always content to make peace for an indemnity, whereby peace is imposed on me too.

How are you actually supposed to get anywhere as a vassal? Are vassals simply not meant for starting wars of their own? Is independence at first opportunity mandatory?

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Lieges are sometimes annoying like that, but often I just declare new war ASAP when my liege makes peace and take the -100 prestige hit rather than give up. Sometimes it means several prestige hits (my record was -1500 prestige or something like that before I got what I wanted), but it doesn't really matter, because most of the time I couldn't afford another war in decade or so and I have to take what I want before I run out of men and money.

 

[unmerged(149703)]

Save just before the siege is over, lower the speed, and make your demand immediately after the siege has finished. You might need a couple of reloads.

 

[unmerged(104889)]

Too familiar to me too. Also one annoying thing is that when you declare a war on somebody and move your troops to it's territory, the king decides to come with his ten thousands troops and take the province for himself even it should have been mine.

 

[Gollevainen]

i've encountered this as well...usually to the extend that I get so mad that I offer myself as a vassal for the pagans and work my way up to the heathen thrones by that way...only proplem is that when the event that change your religion, my own paganic wetdreams always insist me to take it and ruin the game by that way (you cannot load those saves you make when you are pagan )

 

[kadvael56]

How are you actually supposed to get anywhere as a vassal?

You can wait until some of your neighbours rebel and take their lands before the king, it can take a long time to wait and then you have to be quick. Having at least battering rams will help making the sieges shorter.

Is independence at first opportunity mandatory?

If you are a duke in a large kingdom it can be interesting to remain a vassal, you can attack counties vassals to other dukes, those dukes will attack you but the king will dow the dukes in retaliation.

(you cannot load those saves you make when you are pagan )

You just need to edit the save file every time you reload like this:

XXXX = { #Your primary title tag
        gender = male/female
        type = county/duchy/kingdom
        dna = "XXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
        title = { XXXX }  #Your primary title tag
        }

 

[TempestDK]

that is why it sucks to be a vassal

The reason he accepts a pittance in peace-offer, is tht he stands to gain nothing from your war, except a more powerful vassal/potential rival. So when he is offered money for doing nothing, he is very inclined to take it.

There are ways to "cheat" your liege though.

1. Siege Tech. Have at least the first siege tect before you start. The faster you siege, the lower the possibility of the pagan offering your liege money and him accepting it.

2. Pause. As soon as your siege is over, pause the game ... and I mean immediately!. Then you have all the time in the world to formulate the peace you want, and not having to worry that the liege ends the war while you are fiddling with the demands.

3. Occupy the Liege. Lieges at war elsewhere seem less inclined or at least slower to accept peace offers. So you could declare war on some god-forsaken sheikdom in the Middle-East, and while he is attending to that war, you have (a little) more time to finish your business.

4. More is better. Go for larger countries. If the liege thinks he can gain some territory, he will gladly help you out until he can get som land. So, if you declare war on a 3-province pagan, you can rush to the one province you really want, and let the liege take the other two. That gives you much more time to finish your siege. You have to time it right though, so you let your liege take on the opposing forces. This probably means that you have to wait until he charges in, before you go for a province.

5. Greed is bad. Don't get greedy. Thinking that your liege is bogged down in that first province, fighting the pagans, you can go get that second juicy province for yourself. Many times I have been in the end of the second siege when suddenly my liege ends the war, and I am left with nothing because I wanted that second province. Make small, quick wars.

 

[KonradRichtmark]

Well, the problem isn't that the enemy makes peace with the king upon completion of the siege. I'd give anything to get that far. No, they make peace with the king as soon as their field army is defeated, before even the siege is completed.

Though the fact that I'm doing it to Åland which is an island and loses its field army on first defeat (rather than keeps pingponging around) might have something to do with it.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

Well, the problem isn't that the enemy makes peace with the king upon completion of the siege. I'd give anything to get that far. No, they make peace with the king as soon as their field army is defeated, before even the siege is completed.

Though the fact that I'm doing it to Åland which is an island and loses its field army on first defeat (rather than keeps pingponging around) might have something to do with it.

Like I said, when king makes peace declare war again. It is likely that after few attempts you are able to complete the siege.

 

[Eternal]

If you're a duke you can stay loyal to the king and then poach counties when they revolt from him. Take them and vassalize them, then revoke their title since the king will still take the province back. Worst case scenario you get a claim for a lot less prestige than a grab.

 

[Grauuu]

Well, the problem isn't that the enemy makes peace with the king upon completion of the siege. I'd give anything to get that far. No, they make peace with the king as soon as their field army is defeated, before even the siege is completed.

This is most likely due to the fact that the enemy has some gold left in their treasure. When an AI gets offered all of the gold in another nation, it usually accepts it, no matter the amount. Just make sure your enemy runs out of money and stays at 0, and you should be able to fight for a longer time. (Note: I'm not completely sure this is exactly how it works, but that's how I remember it).
On top of that, if your liege is already preoccupied with other wars, you have more time to conquer the provinces.

 

[unmerged(124674)]

I want to second the emphesis on seige tech. The quicker you can take the province the better.

Secondly, I would set options to automatically pause when a seige is over. That way you can do anything you want and no one else can steal a march on you.

Third, pick poor opponents. If the King doesn't have a claim, he's settle for gold. Fight people who either have no money, of have so little they will spend it all on their army.

Another opton is to fight someone the king has claims on. The AI will always go for the best peace deal it can get. If it has no claims, then it wants money. But if the king has a claim, he will stay in the war until he can push the claim. Then you can use the other techniques mentioned to make sure you get the land instead.

 

[unmerged(31020)]

As Grauuu said, make sure your target is broke by the time he'll beg for peace.
I usually first declare war on some remote vassal of the same liege as my real target(s). The enemy liege will raise all vassals' armies, thereby burning their savings. Most likely all my enemies' and my liege's armies will be brawling over the remote fake target after a while. This gives me time to gobble up some broke and defensless provinces before they realize what's going on.

If the target is independent, you can wait till your liege is engaged elsewhere, so he can't move his armies there in time. Declare war, wait a few months till he's broke, then start siegeing before your liege arrives. The AI usually won't make a peace offer before you're close to winning the siege, and by then they shouldn't have anything left to offer.

Timing is everything. And decent siege tech makes proper timing a lot easier.

Actually I enjoy the early stages of the game as a count vassal most, as it really takes a lot of tricking and treachery to get anywhere.

 

[kadvael56]

Kings take money if they do not have claims but you can do the same, when your liege fights some heathens and you do not have a truce with them, join the war and you can get money.

 

[Anthropoid]

Fascinating stuff. I think I'll get a lot of mileage out of this game once I conquer Europe as Kingdom of France

 

[Snaake]

Fascinating stuff. I think I'll get a lot of mileage out of this game once I conquer Europe as Kingdom of France

Well, the conquering can be fun, although with a decent ruler it's not hard (at least on normal/normal or so) to reach the tipping point where nobody can stand up to you anymore. Once you've conquered enough though, it'll get very tedious, as holding a large realm together is hard work, defeating rebellions every few years.