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Damocles

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Mar 22, 2001
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Has anyone messed around with the combat.txt some in the db folder? I recently began tinkering with CK again, and I have come up with interesting results.

Mostly, I was very tired of how the AI would gather huge armies, and then waste them in a siege. And what REALLY bothered me, was when two armies fought, it was attrition that did ninety percent of the damage. Attrition is bad, but it should be major battles that really shatter the opposing armies. Otherwise, how could the First Crusaders have made it from Normandy to Jerusalem?

So what I did was dramatically raise the morale rating for each type of soldier, and I made castles (a word on that later) give an attrition bonus. It's generally possible for an army of up to 10-15k to do most things with only 2% attrition, and often none in its own demesne. Further, except for some strange situations, such as reloading during a war seeming to set all armies as morale 0, they will tend to engage in set piece battles which either shatters the other side or not. Sometimes, parts of the enemy army escapes, but they are generally decisive. This works because the one thing the AI does well is form super-massive armies and use them like a hammer. Used to be, the army would then melt away at the first siege.

A quick word about other changes I've made:

In my own saved games, I've done past modifications where I set the laws, province power levels and starting tech of each culture. I've also done many other minor modifications, such as making spread dramatically more unlikely, so that cultures would better retain their individual flavor. I've also completely reworked the battles event folder, to make martial ability incredibly more important. It is much more likely to gain prestige and win sieges if you have a great martial value, and it is much more likely your land will be devastated (instead of ruler_stewardship), armies will desert during combat and you will be captured or killed if your martial value is low. Also, romantic and pragmatic were never taken into account before.

I have also changed many other event files, to take into account how children tend to mature with much higher stats on average than they used to...and I set every education trait in my traits file to 2 stewardship less than usual, (so a +1 bonus becomes a -1, and a +4 becomes a +2). Stewardship is so overwhelmingly, incredibly powerful, end-all, be-all of everything, that I generally took every step possible to make other traits more significant. It's only lately that I've found it better to always go martial education when I'm looking to expand, as even tough_soldier helps prevent a lot of negative stuff. Otherwise, I try to depend on marshals, and there are events that give negative consequences for that (albeit rare).

Finally, most every province in my game is a medium_castle. There are a few, which were historically difficult to take, such as Little Armenia, or Aragon and Navarre, which are Large. And others, such as Rome and Byzantium are Huge. I have modified the wars at start, to have the Seljuks in combat with most of Byzantium's Anatolian vassals.

One thing that I failed at doing, was trying to designate certain provinces as 'ports'. All islands, and quite a few other places, which were historically appropriate, would start with naval_harbours, and it was impossible for other provinces to develop them. They would get a massive bonus to speed (encouraging AI to send troops to that province in its calculations), and a huge bonus to the cost of sending troops overseas. Whereas all other non-harbour provinces would have a massively increased cost, preventing the AI from using them. But it just didn't work out. In practice, the game seemed to not take into account any percentage increase beyond 100%.

Right now, I am trying to figure out the difference that playing with regiment sizes, along with attack, defend and shock values will have.

/One sad thing I did was just comment out the Crusader file entirely. It just doesn't work, and usually results in most games turning un-fun around 1090. This was very unfortunate, but unavoidable. The game mechanics just don't allow for them to conquer all those individual emirs, before a white peace is made for 27d.
 
I'd like to know why you think stewardship is so end-all-be-all?

I've personally always felt a good intrigue for a larger demesne (since your spy master doesn't help this at all) and a good martial for avoiding death in battle were far more important. More money is nice, sure, but early on you'll probably go into debt at wartime anyway, and later on you'll just get piles of gold.

From what i've heard, the 0 morale on load has always been there in all versions, it's not a bug that just you get.

Also, from what i've read here, culture spread is really slow already (less than 10 provinces for a single culture over the course of ~400 years), there are only a few cultures that are in any danger of actually becoming extinct. Plus, don't you think culture in a province on the border between eg. Frankish and Occitan *should* change at some point in 400 years?
 
I'd like to know why you think stewardship is so end-all-be-all?

I've personally always felt a good intrigue for a larger demesne (since your spy master doesn't help this at all) and a good martial for avoiding death in battle were far more important. More money is nice, sure, but early on you'll probably go into debt at wartime anyway, and later on you'll just get piles of gold.

From what i've heard, the 0 morale on load has always been there in all versions, it's not a bug that just you get.

Also, from what i've read here, culture spread is really slow already (less than 10 provinces for a single culture over the course of ~400 years), there are only a few cultures that are in any danger of actually becoming extinct. Plus, don't you think culture in a province on the border between eg. Frankish and Occitan *should* change at some point in 400 years?

Hmm. Few misconceptions. Probably my fault for a rambly post.

Regarding stewardship: It dramatically increases the value of your provinces, which gives you more money, while simultaneously giving you bigger regiments. This means that in a war between someone with 5 Stewardship and 20 Martial vs someone with 5 Martial and 20 Stewardship, everything else being equal, the one with the higher stewardship can't lose...at least with base CK events and settings, since it generally rewards the bigger battalions.

In actuality, the battle events were pretty tame. You could conquer an empire with a gruff diplomat and you wouldn't notice much of a difference. I just tweaked them to make martial far more valuable.

I know the 0 morale thing is a long standing bug.

I'm not worried about cultures spreading, I'm worried about their techs spreading. I modified my files to give culture unique starting techs, and I like them to mostly stay that way without spreading in the first ten years. So I made it harder for techs to spread.
 
Yea, you just mentioned that you made spread more difficult, so cultures would remain more unique; I assumed you meant culture spread, since the word 'tech' is missing from in between...

As for the stewardship thing, I didn't realise that stewardship also affects the regiment sizes, not just the base income, loyalty and buildings in the province. I'm still not convinced the 5 and 20 stewardship/martial thing is that bad, since it's rare to actually see a war where both sides are completely even in terms of troop numbers. And if they are, the AI is stupid: in inter-AI wars there often isn't any lasting consequence, and if a human player is involved, I find it's often possible to just quickly siege the enemys demesne for peace, if not conquest.
 
As for the stewardship thing, I didn't realise that stewardship also affects the regiment sizes, not just the base income, loyalty and buildings in the province. I'm still not convinced the 5 and 20 stewardship/martial thing is that bad, since it's rare to actually see a war where both sides are completely even in terms of troop numbers. And if they are, the AI is stupid: in inter-AI wars there often isn't any lasting consequence, and if a human player is involved, I find it's often possible to just quickly siege the enemys demesne for peace, if not conquest.
Income is directly correlated to a province's maximum regiment size.

And I'll tell you one thing. many times playing CK I've wished for 1 or 2 more points of diplo for the loyalty bonus, intrigue for desmene, or stewardship for troops/gold, but in my entire career I have never thought "If only I had 7 martial instead of 6." It's just not that important. It helps win battles, and in theory it increases regiment replenishment but I haven't noticed a significant difference.

In CK battles just are not a big deal. Sometimes you need one or two desmene-defense armies if you're getting swarmed by tuny siege-armies, but a) most of those siege armies won't be led by the 20-Martial King, and b) you can put your best Marshall in charge of the battle army and dominate anyway.

IMO this is actually quite historical. Midieval battles just weren't tha t important. Warfare was raids, skirmishes, and sieges.

Nick
 
By how much did you raise moral?
 
The battles of Manzikert, Hastings, Hattin, Bannockburn and Agincourt respectfully disagree...

Decisive battles such as these are the exception, not the rule.

And loss of armies traveling over long distances due to attrition IS quite historical. See: every other Crusader army following the First. Maybe if attrition wasn't always seen as 'death,' but desertion, which was far more common an issue.

I am interested in your findings, though, but do disagree on a few points.
 
The battles of Manzikert, Hastings, Hattin, Bannockburn and Agincourt respectfully disagree...
Manzikert was a problem for the Byzantines mostly because they bungled their response to it.

Hastings was decisive because the Anglo-Saxon claimant was killed. This left William the Conqueror as the only adult heir available.

Hattin, Bannockburn,and Agincourt were part of larger wars that were decided by sieges. In these cases the victory in battle was useful mostly because it allowed the winner to besiege the loser at his leisure. The English at Bannockburn were actually trying to end a siege, and English gains at Agincourt were wiped out when Joan of Arc raised the siege of Orleans.

Nick
 
By how much did you raise moral?

I pretty much tacked on an 0 to each number. So like, 10 was a minimum. So far, I like it. Combined with the attrition tweak, the AI behaves much more believably. Medium castles everywhere as a minimum is also essential, and balances things out. I did retain small castles with out attrition bonuses in the ass-end of the middle east, africa, persia, etc..

Decisive battles such as these are the exception, not the rule.

And loss of armies traveling over long distances due to attrition IS quite historical. See: every other Crusader army following the First. Maybe if attrition wasn't always seen as 'death,' but desertion, which was far more common an issue.

I am interested in your findings, though, but do disagree on a few points.


Dunno. It seems to me they did have attrition problems, of course. But nowhere near as insanely high as CK unmodded has it. Where a 20k army can be 5k in a couple months, even travelling through wealthy provinces. Right now, the minimum, seems to be between 2 to 5%, and 0% in your personal demesne, (depending on a few other factors, with army upkeep maxed...attrition skyrockets when army upkeep isn't max), and that works well.

From what I've been reading, it seems the Crusaders lost their share of set piece battles as well...Annihilated by the Danishmends somewhere in Anatolia, or being routed in Egypt...

Manzikert was a problem for the Byzantines mostly because they bungled their response to it.

Hastings was decisive because the Anglo-Saxon claimant was killed. This left William the Conqueror as the only adult heir available.

Hattin, Bannockburn,and Agincourt were part of larger wars that were decided by sieges. In these cases the victory in battle was useful mostly because it allowed the winner to besiege the loser at his leisure. The English at Bannockburn were actually trying to end a siege, and English gains at Agincourt were wiped out when Joan of Arc raised the siege of Orleans.

Nick

Good points. But at least one army has the chance to be wiped out, allowing the victorious army to go around sieging. Instead of just losing a hundred troops, losing 3405 to attrition, retreating, coming back and repeating. And it's the only way I could find, that would let a higher martial value make an appreciable difference. Sadly, CK battles still seem to work out to the effect that 10,000 knights with a 30 martial leader, will still lose to 20,000 light infantry with a 10 martial leader. But it's some progress.

I made an event that would randomly kill off a regiment during combat, if your martial score was very low, such as <10.