Precision Strike

[ObLoM]

I've now played a decent number of multiplayer matches in tournaments and on ISW of for various matchups (balanced and unbalanced) and in my humble opinion Precision Strike is broken and unnecessary in multiplayer. I realise that this was initially conceived as a comeback mechanic that helps against snowballing victories, but it really does not do that at all - rant below.

1. It's very poorly explained how exactly Fury accumulates and seems to add another element of random that is FAR WORSE than a random ammo explosion (except if we're talking about CT ammo)

2. Because it's unpredictable, it can make even games snowball very quickly, as one side may simply get a Fury advantage. This can happen when multiple mechs die in succession, for example or other RNG-related events happen.

3. Do we seriously need a skill that does concentrated fire to a mech part, set inititive back, AND give a shot bonus in a game that very prone to RNG swings with the skill itlsef being highly unreliable and irregular in how it builds up, this is way over the top

4. It penalises good strategic play. If I play well and get lose

5. There is enough random and variation with mechwarrior skills, loadouts, shot %, ranges and movement to not need this gimpy hyperswing stuff to have a fun game :O

 

[Ozymandious]

I agree in principal. If hbs could take a look at a balance pass at it that may help.

 

[Dezimus]

Yes, it is fun in SP, but it not so fun in MP.
Player, who use it first can recive a huge advantage for nothing. You do not know exactly when this skill will be applied. There is no protection against it, you can not prepare and counteract this skill. It just comes and you pray to the RNGesus.
This should be more controllable. Or at least there should be an option in match lobby to disable it completely.

 

[Ozymandious]

The option to enable or disable sounds like a really good idea. Also I think it might work better if it was more transparent in how it accrued to a player. Idk mabey some kinds of floaty letting you know what you get fury for and when. @23cypher you had some good points on this in the what do you want for multiplayer thread. Any new ideas or more granular thinking/improvments

 

[HonorKnight]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of this in multiplayer either - when used well, it swings the game balance much too far. An option to disable it might be nice, so anyone who likes it can keep using it.

 

[Thokari]

I've now played a decent number of multiplayer matches in tournaments and on ISW of for various matchups (balanced and unbalanced) and in my humble opinion Precision Strike is broken and unnecessary in multiplayer. I realise that this was initially conceived as a comeback mechanic that helps against snowballing victories, but it really does not do that at all - rant below.

1. It's very poorly explained how exactly Fury accumulates and seems to add another element of random that is FAR WORSE than a random ammo explosion (except if we're talking about CT ammo)

2. Because it's unpredictable, it can make even games snowball very quickly, as one side may simply get a Fury advantage. This can happen when multiple mechs die in succession, for example or other RNG-related events happen.

3. Do we seriously need a skill that does concentrated fire to a mech part, set inititive back, AND give a shot bonus in a game that very prone to RNG swings with the skill itlsef being highly unreliable and irregular in how it builds up, this is way over the top

4. It penalises good strategic play. If I play well and get lose

5. There is enough random and variation with mechwarrior skills, loadouts, shot %, ranges and movement to not need this gimpy hyperswing stuff to have a fun game :O

I agree 100% to all the arguments presented here.
I was going to make a post stating pretty much the same thing.

 

[Zakhodit]

Actually I disagree

Well, partially. It’s poorly explained for sure. And I’m still not sure if some things are bugs or not.

What I disagree with is that it’s unnecessary. In Battletech, once you are a mech down, it is very hard to get back in the game.

One lucky punch or AC/20 and a full armored mech is out of the match. If the players are evenly matched, the game is over.

The called shot gives you a chance to get back in the game.

It needs work but without it, first blood wins.

 

[Dezimus]

Hmm. But if you don't kill any mech, and only deal some minor critical hits on couple of them, can I still take my revenge? Even if you kill me a LCT with lucky punch, can I Precision Strike that sweet RT from your HBK?
It seems that current version of Precision Strike needs a lot of work to be a fair comeback feature (personally I don't against this), and not a game decider.

 

[Havamal]

I also suspect we might still see additional options to spend the points for both the fury and morale meter as they get to it.

We are at the foundation that can be built on.

 

[Pewpew!]

At least it doesnt ignore braced anymore. Aaahhh backer beta.

 

[Callidus87]

I'm pretty much on the same Page with @Zakhodit. We need a better UI that tells us when and how Fury is accumulated for us and our enemy.

The base mechanics Of shooting stuff and moving around is to simplistic for deep tactical play. Precision strike and Pilot skills gives us more tactical tools to work with and around. I am calculating my owne and my enemies fury in every match. I'm not always right, but often enought to not get surprised by it regularly. It could get toned down a bit, but only the bonus to hit chance should go -1 and target a specific area are realy nice tools to work with.

If you take these tools away the guy with the better dice roles wins.

 

[Zakhodit]

I've been thinking about this all day. Trying to work out the best way for the called shots to work in an MP match without becoming so random it's as bad as other dice roll events.

Best I could come up with was this:

1)You have a called shot ready to go from the start.
2)Once used, you can build fury back up for a second shot.
3)The Fury rate should be toned down. +10 per turn is fine. But no extra points for exploding limbs or damage to mechs of any kind. Only the death of a pilot would grant +25 Fury.
4)Killing an OPFOR PILOT is -10 fury. (Why not as some revenge has been taken)

Thoughts?

 

[Ozymandious]

I gotta say I like the guy with the better rolls wins. I have always felt the point of this game was maximizing your odds and decreasing your opponents. that you have no absolute control, like what you get with the called shot mechanic, is what makes it interesting and challenging. adding a kill it now when meter is full mechanic just cheeses me out. I get where you are coming from with the addition of other factors making the juggling more fun, but I really hate it when all of a sudden your opponent gets to ignore rng and just blow you away. it might also be cause I can miss the back with 4 80% called shots to the rear lol. no mostly I think its cause it reduces chance with out skill. yes predicting when it will light up is skill but using it negates a great deal of the oponents skill in positioning and making your shots harder. so I don't see it as adding to the fun so much as getting around the usual rules. I might like it better if it allowed a called shot with a to hit penalty or something. something that allowed a good player to avoid getting ct cored from fresh just cause that blk knight gets a called shot on you, but would at the same time penalize a bad player for hanging out in the open with no evasion or brace. zakhodit, I like your implimintation better than the current system. I still think there should be no way to reliably ct core a mech from fresh.

 

[Callidus87]

the thing with dice rolls is often enough it's not the better player that wins it's the guy that rolls better. I have lost my fair share of games just because my enemie hit 10% shot or the tripple HS etc. there is more than enough rng in the game alrdy. Taking more controled tools away just makes this a luck fest and that gets frustrating realy fast.
atleast for me

 

[Ozymandious]

Its controlling the RNG that makes it fun for me, if I can force the other guy to have to hit 10% shots I'm doing it right. If he hits those shots anyway, I have to figure out how to win against rngesus lol. I am not that good a player but that is what I want to try to do. Losing cause I didn't bring a high alpha mech sucks

 

[Prussian Havoc]

"Better Tactics" are not a gaurenteed Win in real life combat either.

HBS has rightly abstracted down to BATTLETECH percentages a world of ClausewitzIan Friction.

 

[Dezimus]

I think it could be a choice between usual shot with a to hit bonus (and Initiative decreasing) OR choosing a location and fire with small to hit penalty (or even without it), right like it was in TT with targeting comp. Maybe it could be used more often in those conditions.
It is a decision that add a new tactical layer to a game and not as punishing as it now.
Able to see a fury bar of your opponent and more clear mechanics of filling it are great additions too.

 

[ObLoM]

I'm on the same page with Ozy on this. The objective of a match is to control RNG and consistently give your opponent worse odds. Sometimes you will still lose, but overall you will come out on top in the longerbterm.

The current implementation of precision shot bypasses that entirely. A BLK can core most heavies from mid-long range with one precision shot, from undamaged to dead in one shot. This requires no tactics or skill, just the availability of fury.

If we're bent on having this type of mechanic, let's put a targeting computer in each mech, or, better yet, let's add this as a mechwarrior skill and scale it back to the level of targeting computer called shot, with a to hit penalty, but available to anyone at any point.

The other optuono is to tone it down to remove the to hit bonus. The ability to target body parts is already obscenely good. Also, let's increase that maximum storable fury to, say, 175 or 150. This will make it less likely that fury ticks are lost when you lose multiple mechs in one turn, and should at least make this skill more equally available to both players.

 

[Dezimus]

Yes, right now system is somethat like an unjustifiable attempt to cheating with the dices. "Ahh, you shot me in head with AC20 on last turn, so this turn I put my dices with 6s on top every time I roll them. Do not argue!"
I'm ok to allow it once, but all the time?

So, I agree that choosing a location alone is more than enough to conpensate bad RNG (if it require a compensation at all). Usual hit with to hit bonus is just an alternative.

Also, if we afraid of fury being lost why we should add a maximum amount of it to store? Just cap to 100 available to use in a turn and keep all your mana

 

[23rdCypher]

Firstly, I agree completely that there should be a clearer way of showing exactly what events trigger Fury gain and how greatly they fill the meter. It's hard to tell if it's bugged at the moment because sometimes it seems to fill up more quickly for one player than the other despite both having similar damage levels.

I quite like the idea of different abilities, each costing different amounts of Fury to trigger. Like one ability granting a bonus to hit, another manipulating initiative (perhaps one to move your next action forward a step, another to take a target's back), one to call shot a location with a penalty to hit, maybe even an ability that lets you perform something like a form of Overwatch.

Generally, I'm in favour of having more frequently usable, weaker but still useful abilities rather than big game changers.

I suppose the difficulty would be adapting the UI to fit three or four more buttons to allow this sort of thing, but I think that if HBS did so it might make play more tactical.