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Procedural Map Generation - time for a Paradox fantasy game?

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CrackdToothGrin said:
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I'm aware of these sorts of things as I'm a pretty active lurker on the world builders subreddit (and do a bit of world building as part of my writing). I'm agreeing with you on the limitations of procedurally generated maps and arguing for a hand-crafted map over one that is just randomly thrown together a la the RNW generator.
 
Mr. Capiatlist said:
I'm aware of these sorts of things as I'm a pretty active lurker on the world builders subreddit (and do a bit of world building as part of my writing). I'm agreeing with you on the limitations of procedurally generated maps and arguing for a hand-crafted map over one that is just randomly thrown together a la the RNW generator.
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Honestly, if anyone ever built a true-to-life procedural worldbuilder, the most immediate application would probably be in the wordlbuilding market as opposed to the game market. It would immediately get repurposed if it had some form of export options.
 
CrackdToothGrin said:
Honestly, if anyone ever built a true-to-life procedural worldbuilder, the most immediate application would probably be in the wordlbuilding market as opposed to the game market. It would immediately get repurposed if it had some form of export options.
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I have found worldbuilding to not be terribly profitable. I think the "trickle down" would go the other way.
 
Mr. Capiatlist said:
I have found worldbuilding to not be terribly profitable. I think the "trickle down" would go the other way.
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Worldbuilding as a skillset may not be profitable, but software to generate it is. There's a reason software like Campaign Cartographer sells well. If a good worldbuilder could be procedural, and involve realistic tweaking, and then marketed in connection to something like tabletop RPGs... I could see that making that good good "niche money", naw mean?
 
CrackdToothGrin said:
Worldbuilding as a skillset may not be profitable, but software to generate it is. There's a reason software like Campaign Cartographer sells well. If a good worldbuilder could be procedural, and involve realistic tweaking, and then marketed in connection to something like tabletop RPGs... I could see that making that good good "niche money", naw mean?
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Eh? Maybe it's because I've always hand drawn all my D&D maps, but I'd never pay for that kind of stuff. How often is a geologically correct rain shadow going to come up in fiction? Rain shadows - yes; but that level of correctness might not actually be worth it in the end. Especially if older , less accurate software, is cheaper.
 
ay this thread again. i remember it well. i'd still be interested in a procedural generation map. especially if PDS revives runemaster or designs a game with the same isometric, tactical, and exploration concepts.
 
Although I do enjoy games with procedural map generation these maps are not amazingly good imo. A lot of detail and information is missing and some of the features present seem incredibly random. A bit of college geophysics and it begins to look off.
 
Being able to conquer a medieval fantasy type world with different races to subjugate and use for yourselves is definetly something I would sink 40€ into at release
 
The city names don't exactly appeal but if we had some control over the generation that would be nice, and maybe we could rename the cities ourselves (long shot I would assume) Regardless i would gladly sink money if i had the ability too.
 
I also think it's time for Paradox fantasy game. Yet I'm not a big fan of random maps, but definetelly support this as an additional option. I would much much more prefer for them to take already established game universe (Warhammer, Lotr, GoT, DnD?) and turn it into a game. Low fantasy realism. I think a lot of people who already play their games would rejoice.
 
CrackdToothGrin said:
I think the procedural generation of the shapes and borders and names is really neat. That's pretty cool.

But, the one thing that procedural generation cannot really do, for me, is create a physically-accurate random world. Even with mapping scripts like Perfect World or Totestra in Civ games, the end result is still wonky.

If that algorithm would generate heat, moisture, wind, riverine, and tectonic patterns in a believable fashion; Then I'd be down for it. And, to me, that type of stuff is not trivial. Inhospitable areas should be terra incognita or impassable and there should be no cities there, etc. Areas with good agriculture potential should become population powerhouses, etc.

If you want a random map on a fantasy game - The geographical composition of the world should be a major actor. It decides the framework for where everyone lives and what they are capable of. It seems most mapping efforts use some kind of Perlin noise generation and then slap some stuff on it. It's not accurate enough for me, personally.
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aruon said:
this. i wonder how difficult it would be to essentially craft a psuedo-unique lore for a dynamically generated culture. like a fictional culture or civilization that uses "generic_lore_01" but there's tons of event chains and flavor text and all the filler and reference it's chosen culture use dynamic naming. sort of like how the community made a backstory for the Blorg.
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Have none of you heard of dwarf fortress?
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/features.html
 
CrackdToothGrin said:
But, the one thing that procedural generation cannot really do, for me, is create a physically-accurate random world. Even with mapping scripts like Perfect World or Totestra in Civ games, the end result is still wonky.
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That's not true. Go play Elite: Dangerous, and you'll see what procedural generation can do.
 
jpd said:
That's not true. Go play Elite: Dangerous, and you'll see what procedural generation can do.
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It's impressive, yeah, but what you're saying it can do is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about "does the map look good" at all. What I'm saying is, "Is this terrain and climate representative of the actual weather patterns that would generate from a combination of these physical features, moisture density, temperature, orbital period, etc.?"
 
Dwarf fortress does it very well really. Like chars can have deep back stories and stuff. Your civ will have its own stories too. You can google it and find loads of cool stories people have dug up.

My only gripe regarding df is that it is very hard to access this kind of stuff in game and without addons.

Df is very much down to taste and if you are willing to give it the time to get through it. The terrible user interface is half the "fun"

The thought of paradox doing a df game really does it for me mind.
 
Lexgrad said:
Dwarf fortress does it very well really.
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I was waiting for someone to mention dwarf fortress. As far as realism in its world generation is concerned, it has a long way to go. There are still things that fundamentally make no sense, such as plate tectonics not existing, and the interaction between mountains and rivers/brooks. I play it and stay sane by rationalizing it as being a creationist universe, and the gods basically handmade most of the geography.

Experilous' worldbuilder is a cool tool as well. I'm surprised to see someone else who knows of it.
 
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