Project proposal: SPQR mod

[TheLand]

A major thing people just don't seem to understand (me included for a long time) is that "barbarians" represent the tribes of the era. The non-colonized areas are not "empty space". During the game's time period no "tribal empire" managed to emerge. A "nation", meaning a faction able to directly compete with major powers, prerequires things that simply not existed in the tribal societies.

I agree...

The problem the game has is that almost the whole of Europe was well-populated by peoples at different levels of urbanization and sophistication. Some of these peoples were quite aggressive, some were relatively pacific, others were pacific and uninterested in fighting Romans until someone invaded and occupied them.

To incorporate these groups into an Empire took conquest, trade, government, and diplomancy at different times for different peoples. Sometimes it went very quickly - look at how quickly Carthaginian influence spread in Spain between the Punic wars, or how quickly Rome took over Gaul during and after the Gallic Wars. Sometimes it was very slow.

But filling the area with minor nations crying out "annex me" isn't a solution.

I agree, and agree even more so now...

 

[TheLand]

One more specific request - Numbers, can you help?

There is an event which gives low-civ provinces which are not capitals a +10 civ boost. This is designed to help provinces which have been pillaged by barbarians recover. It would be good if we could find a way to have the event fire only if the province has been pillaged - so that a colony in a low-civ-value province doesn't get the benefits of it.

Doing this will really help slow Massilia down now I have lowered the civ ratings of the first two provinces they always colonise ;-)

 

[unmerged(80821)]

I will be able to do this, just give me to later today because I've got school . We also have three military idea slots left for Ideas, we currently have a revamped professional soldiers, conscript armies, Horse lords, naval ethos, mass charge, military citizenship, steppe cavalry. I combined both martial ethos and professional soldiers along with a manpower hit for the professional soldiers idea, and conscript armies have small hits top how they fight with a small plus in manpower.

We have 3 more army national idea slots so if anybody can suggest more naval ones that will be great.

Actually I think I will use Timmy's idea for government payed equipment for one also, so that is really 2 slots left.

 

[TheLand]

I will be able to do this, just give me to later today because I've got school . We also have three military idea slots left for Ideas, we currently have a revamped professional soldiers, conscript armies, Horse lords, naval ethos, mass charge, military citizenship, steppe cavalry. I combined both martial ethos and professional soldiers along with a manpower hit for the professional soldiers idea, and conscript armies have small hits top how they fight with a small plus in manpower.

We have 3 more army national idea slots so if anybody can suggest more naval ones that will be great.

Actually I think I will use Timmy's idea for government payed equipment for one also, so that is really 2 slots left.

funky! I suspect that the last one might be best as a tech, rather than an Idea... possibly a forced-choice tech. though I'm not sure.

 

[TheLand]

Just a thought while I have it on my mind.

Do people think there is scope for additional character traits? I am thinking particularly of more traits for governors. Of course we already have inept/average/able/gifted/firm, and a wide range of existing traits have much more impact in this mod than in vanilla.

but do we need more?

We could have "merciful" vs "harsh", "barbaric" vs "cultured", "disinterested" vs "active"... would these be useful or would they just duplicated what existing traits do or should do?

Views please!

 

[unmerged(2456)]

since i just got my CE copy today, i haven't been able to post but in response to this statement:

Filling the map with tribal nations - this might turn out to be the solution to some problems (e.g. Gaul?), but I would prefer to keep some space for colonisation if possible

That will only make things worse.

 

[TheLand]

That will only make things worse.

which is why we're not doing it

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Just a thought while I have it on my mind.

Do people think there is scope for additional character traits? I am thinking particularly of more traits for governors. Of course we already have inept/average/able/gifted/firm, and a wide range of existing traits have much more impact in this mod than in vanilla.

but do we need more?

We could have "merciful" vs "harsh", "barbaric" vs "cultured", "disinterested" vs "active"... would these be useful or would they just duplicated what existing traits do or should do?

Views please!

I haven't checked the events, but:

1. Can they be lost, especially if you remove the govenor?
2. Are they're events to change them like other traits? It's not common, but people do change.
3. Does the ruler get a trait like that since he's ruling a province?

Point is from what i've read i can just assign govenors, rotating them till i get govenors with traits i like.

As for new traits...i think either:

• You should up the original traits
• You should lessen the impatc of these ones
  or
• you should make the traits and new ones that are more powerful as sucessor traits like some of the health ones are

 

[TheLand]

I haven't checked the events, but:

1. Can they be lost, especially if you remove the govenor?
2. Are they're events to change them like other traits? It's not common, but people do change.
3. Does the ruler get a trait like that since he's ruling a province?

Point is from what i've read i can just assign govenors, rotating them till i get govenors with traits i like.

At the moment, these new traits don't go away (except in exceptional circumstances: if someone with "gifted" gets the plague or becomes Cruel, they lose Gifted)

So yes, there is a risk that you will be able to rotate all the characters through being province governors and find the best ones.

Factors which mean that this isn't a huge problem include: the pool of governors (particularly high-finesse ones) is often not much bigger than the number of posts; and there is a risk of characters losing Loyalty if they get shuffled around too much.

However I agree, in an ideal world the trait would be cleared if someone stopped being a governor.

Thank you for your views!

 

[unmerged(80821)]

I've been searching for the event that adds the civ but I can't find it, do you know where it is? I have already tested the other events that set the flags so this only fires for the sacked provinces, I just cant find the event. Also do you mean that Government issued equipment should be a tech? I have no preference on this just wondering.

 

[Necro]

O.K., I tried to upload my latest game using v1b (549AVC).

It looks like colonization slowed down for everyone except Carthage and Massila (now conquored by Rome). Carthage seems to have to much ability to colonize. I think it needs to be tone down alittle.


As far as Gaul and Iberia goes, can they be left with no minors and then have events later in the game add minors? This would allow you to slow colonization and conquest in the beginning and then speed it up by adding minors to conquor later.

Thanks for the great work!

 

[DesertSnow]

I have an idea concerning the "empty space" problem

As i have already said, strengthening the "barbarians" could slow down colonization. But i cannot overlook the fact that many people (myself included) prefer to play paradox games as minors, slowly transforming them to empires.

Instead of adding civilization to tribes or filling the map with minors that will be absorbed by the player, perhaps we could write events that enable certain tribal factions (Lusitani in Spain, Parisii in Gaul, Dacia in the east, Suenni in Germany) to expand to nearby "barbarian" provinces of the same culture. This event could be described with a text such as:

"The accumulation of wealth under the guidance of our charismatic leader caught the attention of a number of people in the nearby xxxxx province (xxxx= random but with the same culture). If we are willing to share a part of our wealth with them (a gold amount large enough that it takes years for a minor to gather), we could expand our control into their province"

The event would be random, reoccuring, and influenced by the char of the chieftain. Does anyone like this idea. If yes, is an event such as this possible?

 

[unmerged(85598)]

As it so happens, I'm coding event chains to unify the barbarian provinces (both nations and uncolonized land) just as soon as I finish coding the factions . It's part of my plan to replace conventional colonization with event-driven colonization, and will be part of Doe's Mod v.2.

I'm not fully certain the commands I'm using will actually work the way I expect them to, though, so there's a bit of worry there...

EDIT: Um, just so there's no confusion, that was an endorsement of the idea, and an indication that others were thinking along the same lines, not an advertisement for my mod ^_^0 .

 

[TheLand]

I've been searching for the event that adds the civ but I can't find it, do you know where it is? I have already tested the other events that set the flags so this only fires for the sacked provinces, I just cant find the event.

#1069 at the top of governors.tx

Also do you mean that Government issued equipment should be a tech? I have no preference on this just wondering.

yes. Perhaps it should only fire if you have relevant Ideas? or maybe I'm overcomplicating things

 

[TheLand]

Carthage seems to have to much ability to colonize. I think it needs to be tone down alittle.

I think that much Spain being colonised by 572 is not far from realistic. Did you find Carthage ended up being too powerful?

As far as Gaul and Iberia goes, can they be left with no minors and then have events later in the game add minors? This would allow you to slow colonization and conquest in the beginning and then speed it up by adding minors to conquor later.

Perhaps! would be quite complicated to implement.

 

[Necro]

I can't say if Carthage is strong or not. I have never had a war with them yet. I had been working on taking Macadonia down. Rite when I just had destroyed their army, a civil war boke out and ended my takedown efforts (my Greek amries and provences all rebeled). Had things worked out I would have hit Carthage next.

 

[unmerged(80821)]

I have made the events that are needed for it to only fire for the sacked provinces, I will post them in a few minutes.

also I have made the tech for government funded equipment only if you have the idea of conscript armies, I just don't know at what tech. this means that there are still 3 idea slots left in military, god only knows how many left in civic, and I still don't know what to do with the economic and religious. Please share any suggestions .

P.S. If anybody has any cool pictures for human sacrifice please share them.

 

[TheLand]

this means that there are still 3 idea slots left in military, god only knows how many left in civic, and I still don't know what to do with the economic and religious. Please share any suggestions

Post'em up here and I'll have a look

Am just trying to get some gallic bonus-troops events working then I will be onto the national ideas as well

 

[TheLand]

New beta version incorporating the changes I've made today to the Gauls. More inter-tribe diplomacy, troops turning up in droves and then disbanding for no apparent reason... very Gallic

http://www.mediafire.com/?bknxxwrlwmx

 

[unmerged(80821)]

Here are the military ideas , they are the only ones with real headway.

military_ideas = {
	horse_lords = {
		trigger = {
			or = {
				culture_group = persia
				primary_culture = numidian
			}
		}
		cavalry_discipline = 0.20
		horse_archers_discipline = 0.20
		heavy_infantry_discipline = -0.10
		militia_discipline = -0.10
	}
	professional_soldiers = {					#professional soldiers
		trigger = {
			or = {
				culture_group = hellenic
				primary_culture = egyptian
			}
		}
		global_manpower = -0.25
		land_organisation = 0.50
		land_morale = 0.50
	}
	martial_ethos = {							#foot soldiers
		trigger = {
			or = {
				culture_group = latin
				culture_group = north_levantine
				culture_group = south_levantine
				culture_group = illyria
				culture_group = thracia
				culture_group = germanic
				culture_group = gallic
				culture_group = iberia
				culture_group = hellenic	
			}
		}
		heavy_infantry_offensive = 0.10
		heavy_infantry_defensive = 0.10
		militia_offensive = 0.10
		militia_defensive = 0.10
		cavalry_discipline = -0.20
	}
	naval_ethos = {									#naval ethos		
	trigger = {
		primary_culture = carthaginian
		culture_group = hellenic	
		}
		naval_morale = 0.50
	}
	tribal_recruitment = {							#Mass Charge
		trigger = {
			has_country_flag = mass_charge_idea
		}
		militia_offensive = 0.20
		militia_discipline = -0.05
		land_organisation = -0.05
	}
	military_camps = {								#military citizenship
		trigger = {
			has_country_flag = military_citizenship_idea
		}
		heavy_infantry_discipline = 0.10
		cavalry_discipline = 0.10
		horse_archers_discipline = 0.10
		militia_discipline = 0.10
		land_organisation = 0.10
		global_manpower = -0.05
		freedmen_to_citizen = -0.05
	}
	cataphracts = {									#steppe cavalry
		trigger = {
			culture_group = scythia
		}
		horse_archers_offensive = 0.05
		horse_archers_defensive = 0.05
		cavalry_defensive = 0.05
		cavalry_offensive = 0.05
	}
	legionary_military_system = {					#conscript armies
		trigger = {
			or = {
				culture_group = latin
				primary_culture = numidian
				culture_group = north_levantine
				culture_group = south_levantine
				culture_group = persia
				culture_group = scythia
				culture_group = illyria
				culture_group = thracia
				culture_group = germanic
				culture_group = gallic
				culture_group = iberia
			}
		}
		global_manpower = 0.10
		land_organisation = -0.10
		land_morale = -0.10
	}
	militarized_society = {								#change this
		trigger = {
			land_tech = 25
		}
		experience_decay = -0.01
	}
	siege_train = {										#change this
		trigger = {
			land_tech = 25
		}
		siege_speed = -0.2
	}
}

I also added in foot soldiers, though I think I will take out all of the barbarian tribes from it because they already have mass charge. This leaves 2 more slots, we are almost there