Proposed New Rules Aussie open game

[Majorball]

Please add your comments in this thread. Nominate new rules and changes to exisitings rules and guidelines.
Will amend rules as comments are made and agreed upon.

Semi-Historical with DOWs but not restricted to any fixed dates other then the start of the war with danzig. Players should be mindful of there actions that are unhistorical or not normal game play as they can cause re-actions by other players and bring there entry into the war. Undefended borders or territory can lead to early war, defend your nation at all times. You cannot blame the aggressor if you invite him in by having no deterrant. US, Japan and Italy should be particulary mindful there early entry can damage the game and should consult there allies prior to any action. Any exploits of the game mechanics is not allowd if unsure discuss with your allies or the entire group.

General:

1) All rule discussions will take place on the forums under the appropriate thread.

2) Open game.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines:

3) No major or minor war until Danzig event unless already at war or by an event.

4) No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

5) A human controlled France must accept Vichy.

6) Anyone except the USA may Guarantee Independence of a country.

Guidelines for Italian war entry:

7) Italy may Ally with Germany on Danzig.

Trading of military units:

8) No country may trade any military units with a Human player until both countries are involved in a war with a common enemy.

9) No country may give minor country units until both in the war.

10) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.

11) No country may buy any French forces through negotiations.

Spies:

12) No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries:

13) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.

14) No one may trade for any resource in the first 7 days of a new game. From the 7th January 1936 you can trade with anyone you like. You may however accept any deal offered by an AI(This is so AI countries can offer historical trades)

15) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.

16) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.

17) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from any country. A human controlled France is prohibited from giving away provinces and puppeting until January 1st 1941.

Surrounded armies & SR:

18) May not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower. Players may negotiate for surrender of such divisions and allow the player to disband them for the manpower ie a temporary ceasefire, withdrawal from provinces, cities etc etc.

19) No SR away from a province that is adjacent to enemy units not in retreat.

All Bugs:

20) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion its decided they are bugged the game may be edited to correct the problem to the satisfaction of both parties.

21) Preventing Naval bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.

Air units:

22) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.

Military Control:

23) No one may take military control of AI controlled minor countries. Puppets, CW(SA, CAN, AUS & NZ) minors, historical Axis minors(Czh, Rom, Hun and Bul) and France are exempt from this ruling. Any player may freely control any EXP forces given by minors. No CW or Axis Minor may leave their home country until Danzig

Deployment of Naval units:

24) Naval units when built must be deployed. They may not be stored in the build que.

Finishing games:

25) All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group

 

[unmerged(50486)]

Ill sit out of this one and watch you guys and the fire works.



Besides... 10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war.

Always my first 2 slides, as thats about 10ic lost in not doing so.

I expect Allies to get rolled and USA will be once again able to do NOTHING> Your punishing USA with not letting them move there Inter slider.


ONE RULE> NO EXPLOITS>

 

[Majorball]

Ill sit out of this one and watch you guys and the fire works.



Besides... 10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war.

Always my first 2 slides, as thats about 10ic lost in not doing so.

I expect Allies to get rolled and USA will be once again able to do NOTHING> Your punishing USA with not letting them move there Inter slider.


ONE RULE> NO EXPLOITS>

There is nothing to sit out. This isnt a thread for new game. Offer up opinions.

Suggestions were made by some players.

Was trying to stop USA entering war in 1939 with no axis aggression.

Still with mild German agression USA can easily join in 1940 through high German belligerence without moving intervention slider. If other guys agree we can move this restriction...after all it is an suppose to be an open game.

Also one rule of no exploits is fine but everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes an exploit.

 

[mike8472]

Please add your comments in this thread. Nominate new rules and changes to exisitings rules and guidelines. Take note of rules removed and war entry for USA in regards to intervention slider. Also have removed the rule in regards to saving supply costs in minor countries. Also added Naval and Airbases must be built in provinces, not as seperate items in production.

Will amend rules as comments are made and agreed upon.

General:

1) All rule discussions will take place on the forums under the appropriate thread.

2) Open game.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines:

3) No major or minor war until Danzig event unless already at war or by an event.

4) No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

5) A human controlled France must accept Vichy.

6) Anyone except the USA may Guarantee Independence of a country.

Guidelines for Italian war entry:

7) Italy may enter war when Paris is captured by Germany, no fixed date.

Guidelines for Russia & Germany war:

8) What ever is negotiated through NAP and Ribbontop pact.

Guidelines Japan and USA entry:

9) When ever permittted by belligerance and intervention sliders.

10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war. To restrictive for USA player.

Trading of military units:

11) No country may trade any military units with a Human player until both countries are involved in a war with a common enemy.

12) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.

13) No country may buy any French forces through negotiations. I would add here not move french units out of france or including land/naval and air forces. This is stop exploits of moving fleets/air forces and land units to take advanatage of the vinchy event in the hope they go to free france instead of vinchy. Spies:

14) No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

15) No other restrictions apply.

Surrounded capital exploit:

16) A capital may not be diliberatley surrounded for the purpose of preventing supplies and convoys from being sent from such a province.

17) If a capital is left vacant it must be occupied if troops are available for such a purpose with regards to other players military requirements. If a situation arises that the basing of a large number of foreign troops are also out of supply due to the above situation it needs to be brought to the attention of the country causing such a situation and it will be corrected at the early convenience.

Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries:

18) Any resource any be trading with any other country.

19) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.

20) No one may trade for any resource in the first 7 days of a new game. From the 7th January 1936 you can trade with anyone you like. You may however accept any deal offered by an AI(This is so AI countries can offer historical trades)

21) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.

22) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.

23) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from and country. A human controlled France is prohibited from giving away provinces and puppeting until January 1st 1941.

Surrounded armies & SR:

24) May not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower. Players may negotiate for surrender of such divisions and allow the player to disband them for the manpower ie a temporary ceasefire, withdrawal from provinces, cities etc etc.

25) No SR away from a province that is adjacent to enemy units not in retreat.

Naval Bugs:

26) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion its decided they are bugged and its going to game breaking the attacking player must break off all attacks naval and air. The affected player is to tell the other player when his forces have reached the next province then attacks may commence. A small group of naval units passing in the middle of hostile territory that gets attack and more than likely be destroyed is not sufficent. It must be a game breaking situation.

27) Preventing such bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.

Air units:

28) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.

29) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.

Military Control:

30) No one may take military control of minor countries. Puppets are exempt from this ruling. Any player may freely control any EXP forces given by minors. The only nation allowd to be military controled is AI france by the UK.
Deployment of Naval units:

31) Naval units when built must be deployed. They may not be stored in the build que.

Naval & Air bases:

32) Naval and airbases can only be built in provinces. They may not be built as a seperate item in production and stored in build ques. Dont think we really need this. Histroicaly the US mass produced most items and shiped it to locations and had airbases up and running in days. Next will we restrict tanks to deploying to sole provinces becuase there are only built in certain locations?Supply issues:

33) Anyone unable to supply forces on islands may request that the island be transferred to the affected player for the purpose of supplying that island. Needed due to AI countries not building enough convoys.

Finishing games:

34) All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group

I would add a General guide line at the top of this list. Its the type of game we all like to play. So all players understand what we expect from them and the style we like. We are trying to reach a balance between historical but open enough to allow flexible DOWs depending on conditions.

Semi-Historical with DOWs but not restricted to any fixed dates other then the start of the war with danzig. Players should be mindful of there actions that are unhistorical or not normal game play as they can cause re-actions by other players and bring there entry into the war. Undefended borders or territory can lead to early war, defend your nation at all times. You cannot blame the aggressor if you invite him in by having no deterrant. US,Japan and Italy should be particulary mindful there early entry can damage the game and should consult there allies prior to any action. Any exploits of the game mechanics is not allowd if unsure discuss with your allies or the entire group.

 

[mike8472]

Ill sit out of this one and watch you guys and the fire works.



Besides... 10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war.

Always my first 2 slides, as thats about 10ic lost in not doing so.

I expect Allies to get rolled and USA will be once again able to do NOTHING> Your punishing USA with not letting them move there Inter slider.


ONE RULE> NO EXPLOITS>

I agree with mighty. To restrictive for the US.

Would be nice to have no rules at, but we would all be arguing so much. Could any of us really stand Major moaning so much, would be enough for me to surrender, I cant fight that kind of weapon.

 

[unmerged(13088)]

Please add your comments in this thread. Nominate new rules and changes to exisitings rules and guidelines. Take note of rules removed and war entry for USA in regards to intervention slider. Also have removed the rule in regards to saving supply costs in minor countries. Also added Naval and Airbases must be built in provinces, not as seperate items in production.

Will amend rules as comments are made and agreed upon.

General:

1) All rule discussions will take place on the forums under the appropriate thread.

2) Open game.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines:

3) No major or minor war until Danzig event unless already at war or by an event.

4) No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

5) A human controlled France must accept Vichy.

6) Anyone except the USA may Guarantee Independence of a country.this should taken out the game is alrdy balanced enough with the historic guarantee dates in it. + people could use this rule to get in the war early.

Guidelines for Italian war entry:

7) Italy may enter war when Paris is captured by Germany, no fixed date.

Guidelines for Russia & Germany war:

8) What ever is negotiated through NAP and Ribbontop pact.

Guidelines Japan and USA entry:

9) When ever permittted by belligerance and intervention sliders.

10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war.

Trading of military units:

11) No country may trade any military units with a Human player until both countries are involved in a war with a common enemy.

12) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.how about that just no units are to be given by france to other plays or taken from france by other players in any manner. and scrap rule 12 and 13

13) No country may buy any French forces through negotiations.

Spies:

14) No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

15) No other restrictions apply.

Surrounded capital exploit:

16) A capital may not be diliberatley surrounded for the purpose of preventing supplies and convoys from being sent from such a province.

17) If a capital is left vacant it must be occupied if troops are available for such a purpose with regards to other players military requirements. If a situation arises that the basing of a large number of foreign troops are also out of supply due to the above situation it needs to be brought to the attention of the country causing such a situation and it will be corrected at the early convenience.

Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries:

18) Any resource any be trading with any other country.

19) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.

20) No one may trade for any resource in the first 7 days of a new game. From the 7th January 1936 you can trade with anyone you like. You may however accept any deal offered by an AI(This is so AI countries can offer historical trades)

21) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.

22) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.

23) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from and country. A human controlled France is prohibited from giving away provinces and puppeting until January 1st 1941.

Surrounded armies & SR:

24) May not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower. Players may negotiate for surrender of such divisions and allow the player to disband them for the manpower ie a temporary ceasefire, withdrawal from provinces, cities etc etc.

25) No SR away from a province that is adjacent to enemy units not in retreat.

Naval Bugs:

26) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion its decided they are bugged and its going to game breaking the attacking player must break off all attacks naval and air. The affected player is to tell the other player when his forces have reached the next province then attacks may commence. A small group of naval units passing in the middle of hostile territory that gets attack and more than likely be destroyed is not sufficent. It must be a game breaking situation.

27) Preventing such bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.

Air units:

28) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.

29) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.

Military Control:

30) No one may take military control of minor countries. Puppets are exempt from this ruling. Any player may freely control any EXP forces given by minors.

Deployment of Naval units:

31) Naval units when built must be deployed. They may not be stored in the build que.

Naval & Air bases:

32) Naval and airbases can only be built in provinces. They may not be built as a seperate item in production and stored in build ques.

Supply issues:

33) Anyone unable to supply forces on islands may request that the island be transferred to the affected player for the purpose of supplying that island. Needed due to AI countries not building enough convoys.

Finishing games:

34) All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group

has the partisan bug been fixed that involves spies?

 

[Majorball]

Modified Rule:

Rule 32) A Level 1 port and airfield can be placed in any province that doesnt have one. To build a port or airfield past level 1 it must be done by building directly on the province(Logic behind this is to make historical major bases something worth fighting for and prevent a level 10 airfield appearing overnight).

Removed rule:

Rule 10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war(To be removed)

Please add comments.

 

[Majorball]

Mike
In regards to rule 13 removal of French units from France. The game has changed now. Even units shipped to UK dissapear on Vichy. You get no advantage from removing units from French territory. I dont think this is needed.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

To be honest i think we should be debating the next player line up and not so much the rules. Some of our players (looks at Major and Munster) have NEVER played on the other team. And that is the Core problem.

The rules are only a problem in this group because its always the same old line up.

Next Time perhaps we should allocate random nations. I am willing to bet my left nut the game will run smooth as because some players simply dont know what other powers have to offer.

Other groups are using our rules quite succesfully under the pretences of GUIDLINES and it seems to work quite well. I think we have all just dug ourselves into the old Foxholes of TeamA V TeamB hence why players are always trying to raise the stakes so crazily.

But then ive been saying this for nearly 2 years and it continues to fall on deaf ears... so....

IMHO to fix our rules we first need to see whats going wrong them to do this we need a simple no rules game (no exploits, which is really limited to supply exploiting now). And just see what happens, come what may.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

The other ting im not a fan of is UK not being allowed to move there minors. Canada and Australia will just get there shit slaughtered.

If UK cant move there minors would it not be fair to add a caveat? that Germany cannot attack France until 1940.

I like the rule of UK not being allowed to move Polish units, i think thats fair. Ive been on the receiving end of the Warsaw blob a few times and it is bullshit.

I would say:

-Allow UK to move all her minors wherever it desires once war starts. (danzig)
-Allow Germany and Italy to join Alliance Once Poland and Belgium have fallen.(Italy should not take Vichy province in West Africa as thats also BS)
-No MC of Polish Forces, ai to control poland.
-No Non British/French Forces in France (including all minor Planes and Ships)

This Gives UK some time to avoid an unfair gangbang, and it also allows Germany and Italy to not follow the same mundane battle plan every game.

Its so hard to make a perfect rule set, cause UK got things in ww2 that could never be replicated here. Polish Airborne units, French Pilots Shermans and other military equipment from USA before USA joins the war.

Uk should be allowed to defend its empire how it sees fit but on the same token we dont want to see Germany beaten in 41-42, and we do want to keep the game fluid.

There needs to be more emphesis on POLITICS, and less on restrictive rules.

We need a rule set that is small and to the point. Our rules dont cover USSR starting wars. IE dowing Afghans persia etc, but i would like to do this once in a whilst.. Not to gear USA but to have a change of taste once in a whilst.

anyone im just rambling now but i think yas know what i mean.

 

[Majorball]

To be honest i think we should be debating the next player line up and not so much the rules. Some of our players (looks at Major and Munster) have NEVER played on the other team. And that is the Core problem.

The rules are only a problem in this group because its always the same old line up.

Next Time perhaps we should allocate random nations. I am willing to bet my left nut the game will run smooth as because some players simply dont know what other powers have to offer.

Other groups are using our rules quite succesfully under the pretences of GUIDLINES and it seems to work quite well. I think we have all just dug ourselves into the old Foxholes of TeamA V TeamB hence why players are always trying to raise the stakes so crazily.

But then ive been saying this for nearly 2 years and it continues to fall on deaf ears... so....

IMHO to fix our rules we first need to see whats going wrong them to do this we need a simple no rules game (no exploits, which is really limited to supply exploiting now). And just see what happens, come what may.

I played Japs before We use to play no rules at all..didnt work. Some are needed to prevent arguments. All we are trying to do it establish the main ones needed. Random countries is a good idea as long as Mike plays Germany :rofl:

 

[unmerged(50486)]

You quit. You missed the biggest game we ever had. 1947.

You gave me a good sucker punch with marines but you built no airforce. When SE took over it was a hell of a fight for me and Gunny as Allies we lost over 180 Divisions but still managed to win the war.

Poor old Nolan got his arse bombes and lost 100's of units from the Air. We launched futile assaults into italy and France several times nly to be kicked out by the Axis.

(Major Germany
Munster UK) --Infact im going to start a poll!

everyone else to be drawn from a hat at random.

 

[mike8472]

The other ting im not a fan of is UK not being allowed to move there minors. Canada and Australia will just get there shit slaughtered.

If UK cant move there minors would it not be fair to add a caveat? that Germany cannot attack France until 1940.

I like the rule of UK not being allowed to move Polish units, i think thats fair. Ive been on the receiving end of the Warsaw blob a few times and it is bullshit.

I would say:

-Allow UK to move all her minors wherever it desires once war starts. (danzig)
-Allow Germany and Italy to join Alliance Once Poland and Belgium have fallen.(Italy should not take Vichy province in West Africa as thats also BS)
-No MC of Polish Forces, ai to control poland.
-No Non British/French Forces in France (including all minor Planes and Ships)

This Gives UK some time to avoid an unfair gangbang, and it also allows Germany and Italy to not follow the same mundane battle plan every game.

I like these ideas, a good balance. The only thing I would add is UK can only control its main CW nations. Australia, Canada, NZ, South Africa all other nations including any new allies that join the war either by the Axis DOW or brought into the Alliance are left under AI control.

Its so hard to make a perfect rule set, cause UK got things in ww2 that could never be replicated here. Polish Airborne units, French Pilots Shermans and other military equipment from USA before USA joins the war.

Uk should be allowed to defend its empire how it sees fit but on the same token we dont want to see Germany beaten in 41-42, and we do want to keep the game fluid.

There needs to be more emphesis on POLITICS, and less on restrictive rules.

We need a rule set that is small and to the point. Our rules dont cover USSR starting wars. IE dowing Afghans persia etc, but i would like to do this once in a whilst.. Not to gear USA but to have a change of taste once in a whilst.

anyone im just rambling now but i think yas know what i mean.

Yes I agree we do need to cull our rules and make them simplier.

 

[mike8472]

Please add your comments in this thread. Nominate new rules and changes to exisitings rules and guidelines.
Will amend rules as comments are made and agreed upon.

Semi-Historical with DOWs but not restricted to any fixed dates other then the start of the war with danzig. Players should be mindful of there actions that are unhistorical or not normal game play as they can cause re-actions by other players and bring there entry into the war. Undefended borders or territory can lead to early war, defend your nation at all times. You cannot blame the aggressor if you invite him in by having no deterrant. US,Japan and Italy should be particulary mindful there early entry can damage the game and should consult there allies prior to any action. Any exploits of the game mechanics is not allowd if unsure discuss with your allies or the entire group.

General:

1) All rule discussions will take place on the forums under the appropriate thread.

2) Open game.

Diplomacy and war entry guidelines:

3) No major or minor war until Danzig event unless already at war or by an event.

4) No one may influence a Human controlled country without their permission.

5) A human controlled France must accept Vichy.

6) Anyone except the USA may Guarantee Independence of a country.

Guidelines for Italian war entry:

7) Italy may enter war when Paris is captured by Germany, no fixed date.

Guidelines for Russia & Germany war:

8) What ever is negotiated through NAP and Ribbontop pact.

Guidelines Japan and USA entry:

9) When ever permittted by belligerance and intervention sliders.

These can be deleted and replaced with one rule. Italy may join after both poland and belgium have fallen. All other wars NAP's between human nations will be via player diplomacy, sliders and beligerance.
10) USA may not manually move intervention slider. Can only be moved by event until USA has entered the war.(To be removed)

Trading of military units:

11) No country may trade any military units with a Human player until both countries are involved in a war with a common enemy.

12) A human controlled France must not trade away any military units.

13) No country may buy any French forces through negotiations. Just expand 12 to include trade/sell units to any nations is forbidon for AI and Human players. Spies:

14) No one may attempt to kill any ministers or leaders from a country they are not at war with.

15) No other restrictions apply.

Surrounded capital exploit:

16) A capital may not be diliberatley surrounded for the purpose of preventing supplies and convoys from being sent from such a province.

17) If a capital is left vacant it must be occupied if troops are available for such a purpose with regards to other players military requirements. If a situation arises that the basing of a large number of foreign troops are also out of supply due to the above situation it needs to be brought to the attention of the country causing such a situation and it will be corrected at the early convenience. Do we need this. 16 covers all this in a very simple way. No surrounding of capitals for supplies, very simple.
Trading of resources, provinces & blueprints with other countries:
18) Any resource any be trading with any other country.

19) The Allies may not trade for rares in the first month of the game. They may accept any trade offered.

20) No one may trade for any resource in the first 7 days of a new game. From the 7th January 1936 you can trade with anyone you like. You may however accept any deal offered by an AI(This is so AI countries can offer historical trades)

21) No restrictions on trading blueprints with Allies or stealing them.

22) No one may trade provinces for the purpose of preventing Annexation of a country.

23) Provinces may be bought and sold freely from and country. A human controlled France is prohibited from giving away provinces and puppeting until January 1st 1941.

Surrounded armies & SR:

24) May not be disbanded when totally surrounded to save manpower. Players may negotiate for surrender of such divisions and allow the player to disband them for the manpower ie a temporary ceasefire, withdrawal from provinces, cities etc etc.

25) No SR away from a province that is adjacent to enemy units not in retreat.

Naval Bugs:

26) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion its decided they are bugged and its going to game breaking the attacking player must break off all attacks naval and air. The affected player is to tell the other player when his forces have reached the next province then attacks may commence. A small group of naval units passing in the middle of hostile territory that gets attack and more than likely be destroyed is not sufficent. It must be a game breaking situation.

27) Preventing such bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.

Air units:

28) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.

29) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.

Military Control:

30) No one may take military control of minor countries. Puppets and France are exempt from this ruling. Any player may freely control any EXP forces given by minors.

Deployment of Naval units:

31) Naval units when built must be deployed. They may not be stored in the build que.

Naval & Air bases:

Rule 32) A Level 1 port and airfield can be placed in any province that doesnt have one. To build a port or airfield past level 1 it must be done by building directly on the province(Logic behind this is to make historical major bases something worth fighting for and prevent a level 10 airfield appearing overnight). Do we really need this. I mean controling airfields construction is getting a bit padantic. You already spent galf a year building the airfields in production, that is more then enough time to build a lvl 10 airfield. Airfields dont appear over night, they were under construction for 6 months. In the same token it is unrealistic to think that only 1 lvl of airfield can be built in a 6 month peroid. Massive airbases were built all over the UK in months not years. This rule needs to be deleted.

Supply issues:

33) Anyone unable to supply forces on islands may request that the island be transferred to the affected player for the purpose of supplying that island. Needed due to AI countries not building enough convoys.

Finishing games:

34) All games to be played until a group vote decides otherwise. A tie means the game will continue. Players must abide by the vote if they wish to continue playing in the Aussie group.

 

[Majorball]

Rules amended again please check. Lots of deletions on things we consider common practice. Issue now surround Italian entry and the movement of CW minors.

Current proposal for Italy is as follows:
7) Italy may Ally with Germany on Danzig.

or when Belgium(European) and Poland surrender.

I for one like no restrictions except Ally with Germany on Danzig. Only thing is it gets back to the good old days with CW forces free to move anywhere.

 

[mike8472]

Rules amended again please check. Lots of deletions on things we consider common practice. Issue now surround Italian entry and the movement of CW minors.

Current proposal for Italy is as follows:
7) Italy may Ally with Germany on Danzig.

or when Belgium(European) and Poland surrender.

I for one like no restrictions except Ally with Germany on Danzig. Only thing is it gets back to the good old days with CW forces free to move anywhere.

I thought it was a good idea mighty had. Italian entry linked to both Belgium and Poland being taken.

It is unlikely Germany would take Beligum without being fully ready to attack france. If you advance into beligum with small forces the allies will pour into Germany.

So Belgium would not be taken until late 39 or 1940 depending on the situation.

It should also be noted that Italy may enter the war at this point it does not have to at all until it feels fit to do so. Upon Italian war entry all restrictions on CWs lifted. We should link the military control of Australia, South Africa and NZ to Italian war entry. Once Italy is in the war there is no limit to the movement of CW forces. This would give Italy the inital advantage depending on size of UK forces until the CW arrive in strength. Just like it actualy did happen.

It is either this or fully open for both sides. Italy may enter upon Danzig and CW free to move anyware unpon danzig.

Which do you prefers.

 

[Majorball]

We still have a problem in regards to Italian war entry and the movement of CW minors. Happy for any sugegstions. If we allow Italy to Ally Germany on Danzig but they dont and then all the CW minors are free to move then they are at a big disadvantage and more or less compelled to join German Alliance on Danzig. We need something that Ties in movement of CW forces(Aus, NZ & SA) to Italian war entry and/or German Major port in the Med.
Please offer up some suggestions.

Also I think we need to specify in our rules about Changing Land doctrines. I dont think Italy & Russia on German land doctrine is good for game.

 

[mike8472]

We still have a problem in regards to Italian war entry and the movement of CW minors. Happy for any sugegstions. If we allow Italy to Ally Germany on Danzig but they dont and then all the CW minors are free to move then they are at a big disadvantage and more or less compelled to join German Alliance on Danzig. We need something that Ties in movement of CW forces(Aus, NZ & SA) to Italian war entry and/or German Major port in the Med.
Please offer up some suggestions.

Also I think we need to specify in our rules about Changing Land doctrines. I dont think Italy & Russia on German land doctrine is good for game.

Although we are playing open DOW's we are forcing Italy to join the war basicaly on Danzig or risk having no chance in there war in the med.

We should leave it open DOW but with the simple restriction of, No control of Australian, NZ or SA forces until Italy DOW the allies.

One line thats all we need for it. So if Italy joins on danzig free movement if they dont DOW till june 1940 all the better for the UK.

As for doctrines I think we should leave it up to the players. If you cancel doctrines you have to sacrifice other techs you cannot research as your busy trying to catch up in the new doc area. You must sacrifice something in return. I think leave it up to the players, this is about less rules or the minimal for more open style. You have to let players decide what docs they want in there own nation.

 

[mike8472]

Supply issues:

25) Anyone unable to supply forces on islands may request that the island be transferred to the affected player for the purpose of supplying that island. Needed due to AI countries not building enough convoys.

I was giving this some serious thought and it is unrealistic and not a fair rule when you think about it.

If I as Germany are sinking minor forces convoys of which I have sunk many in this game is it fair that you can just take control of that island even though I have 100 plus subs out there sinking convoys and yours will just always get through due to numbers.

What nation in there right mind would send convoys through sub infested waters to land troops on and island that in real life would be impossible to supply.

Now the arugment that the allies would just supply the island anyway is simply rubbish. They would not supply it if was through sub infested waters.

You should have to make decisions on how many forces you can put there, how many can you supply.

This rule gives to much advanatage to anyone who simply wants to take an island be dammed who its owned by and penalises which ever team is trying to cut off that islands supply.

Do you see what im getting at, you penalise one team when they did nothing wrong to correct a problem that wouldnt exist if to many forces wernt placed there in the first place. Or undo all the good work of a player who went to the effort to kill convoys of minor forces.

A way to avoid penalising one side may be to edit in a certain number of convoys for minors if we think it is too small. Once there sunk there sunk they will have to build more if thats we want to go. The AI does build convoys and will in time when they get low or if they cant supply a certain region they build them. But obviously there is a delay in when they get built and this would create a very realistic supply problem espically if you have large forces on an island.

To me this rule is unfair for all sides or penalises one team to much. Supply problems are part of the game, you should magicaly be able to gain an island and flood it with 500 convoys through sub infested water knowing only maybe 20 will get sunk at most meaning a huge influx of supplies.

This simply would not happen it is unrealistic and unfair.

 

[mike8472]

9) No country may give minor country units until both in the war.

Why do we need this rule. I think most people like to trade off any starting junk they have.

If you want to trade away your entire fleet well its your downfall and you will suffer the consquences. I think this is another rule we dont need and its not important anyway.