Province Claims

[Jayavarman]

In the Faq by Aetius:
"Conquest
There is no such thing (a temporary CB) in CK. You must have a claim to get a CB for a war that give you a vassal or demesne. Certain *things* may give you non-claim CB's but then you can only get tribute. There are no Peace Treaties with penalties for war mainly because the prerequisites for war will be much tougher in CK than in for example EU2. Greven
Basically if you defeat another ruler you might get his vassals. That is either that his old vassal become your vassal or that you install your own vassal there. At some occasions you may turn a conquered province into a Demesne Province (which is approximately as EU2 owned provinces). Though you never hold many Demesne provinces.
The important change is that you must have a claim on a province to get it at all." Greven

Heres my question: How do you get a claim on a province?

 

[Jos Theelen]

Originally posted by Phillip V
Heres my question: How do you get a claim on a province?

I think that you can get claims by marriage or family-links (??). Because the main thing in CK will be dynasties, you could probably have a claim, if the old ruler dies without children and your son was married with his sister, or something like that.

 

[Wulfram]

Perhaps also if the Pope gives you the claim (I'm thinking of the English Pope granting England permission to invade Ireland here)

 

[unmerged(485)]

Several popes gave different people permission/invitations to conquer Sicily and southern Italy.

 

[Jayavarman]

Another question: Will there be varying degrees of claims (powerful/weak)? For ex. strong if your son was married to only daughter of dead guy.

 

[Idiotboy]

Originally posted by Sonny
Several popes gave different people permission/invitations to conquer Sicily and southern Italy.

In that case how do you use the rules for the eastern europe orthodox nations? I doubt they care much for catholic orders or for that matter western claims.

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by Idiotboy


In that case how do you use the rules for the eastern europe orthodox nations? I doubt they care much for catholic orders or for that matter western claims.

They cared about them, but only because the westerners were claiming eastern held lands.

In the early game there were lots of conflicts between southern Normans, Byzantines, the Pope and the HRE based on claims and grants and conquests.

As to which claims wree legitimate and which not, well that is what the wars were about. And those types of things should make for most interesting game play (if all of that is well modeled in the game).

 

[unmerged(10053)]

Yes, I agree. That is very intelligent.

 

[Idiotboy]

Originally posted by Sonny


They cared about them, but only because the westerners were claiming eastern held lands.

In the early game there were lots of conflicts between southern Normans, Byzantines, the Pope and the HRE based on claims and grants and conquests.

As to which claims wree legitimate and which not, well that is what the wars were about. And those types of things should make for most interesting game play (if all of that is well modeled in the game).

True but with the whole idea that wars can only be preceeded by legitimate claims those claims should be much easier to make if religions differ.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

So under these rules would it be impossible to say - unite france by 1200? You can only take provinces that you have a claim on if I read this correctly. Unlike EU2 where you can take any province you darn well please. In that case, diplomacy will be very important and should make for an interesting experience

 

[unmerged(5664)]

It should be impossible to unite anywhere. The idea of the game is to gather vassals, not to directly rule anywhere. So you could theoretically have all of the lords of France acknowledge you as their master, but you couldn't possibly unite France.

BarristerBoy

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by Idiotboy


True but with the whole idea that wars can only be preceeded by legitimate claims those claims should be much easier to make if religions differ.

Not so much a difference in religion, but a difference in authority. The Pope claiming lands vs. the Byzantine Emperor claiming the same lands is not really a conflict of religion (although who ever ended up with the territory would install their religion ahead of the other). The same type of conflict would aris where the HRE claimed lands which the Pope thought belonged to the See of St. Peter. In those instances there would be no religious differences - except of course the conflict of who could install bishops.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy
It should be impossible to unite anywhere. The idea of the game is to gather vassals, not to directly rule anywhere. So you could theoretically have all of the lords of France acknowledge you as their master, but you couldn't possibly unite France.

BarristerBoy

So then it is impossible to acquire new territory? Or is it just out of the scope of the game?

 

[unmerged(485)]

Originally posted by jaronpinochet


So then it is impossible to acquire new territory? Or is it just out of the scope of the game?

You can acquire new territory. Unless you want to have a hassle you can only directly rule 1/3 of that territory. The King of France would start out with his lands which he ruled directly (demesne) and the other lands would be vassals to him. So the Duke of Normandy would be a vassal of the King of France (an interesting turn of events since he will also be the King of England).

 

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by jaronpinochet


So then it is impossible to acquire new territory? Or is it just out of the scope of the game?

You can certainly acquire new territory for yourself, but more of your territory is likely to be ruled through intermediary vassals.

This is the fuedal era - you rule largely through intermediaries.

 

[Galleblære]

How would this then later translate to EU2 when converting the game? Will only major vassals be vassals in EU2, and the rest part of your land?

Is there really no possibility at all to declare war on a neighbour and take land? Im no expert, but surely there must be some examples where land changed hands in Europe.

 

[unmerged(2920)]

if i remember well you can not control directly more than 30% of your provinces. (not sure about it )

 

[unmerged(8303)]

you have to love feudalism. Is it even like that in say Byzantium? or in England or the Spanish kingdoms? I'm sure that those kings had vassals in this era. I've read about that in history. But I thought the Kings had very strong rule. and the French had an aggressive policy of annexing counties and such of their vassals to increase the crown land. Are such activities impossible in this game, or is it possible as long as your controlled provinces do not exceed 30%?

 

[unmerged(2920)]

Originally posted by jaronpinochet
you have to love feudalism. Is it even like that in say Byzantium? or in England or the Spanish kingdoms? I'm sure that those kings had vassals in this era. I've read about that in history. But I thought the Kings had very strong rule. and the French had an aggressive policy of annexing counties and such of their vassals to increase the crown land. Are such activities impossible in this game, or is it possible as long as your controlled provinces do not exceed 30%?

the king of france in 1066 is weak, he as a real rich province with ile de france but no real power. many other count and duke are a lot more powerful. the power of the king pass by the power of the faithfull count. for exemple the crusade of the albigeois in the south east of france was not directly done by the royal ost but by counts. it is the same every where in europe at that time.
for byzantium it is a bit different but the thing are closer than what is apparent. the governor can rule their provinces as they whant until they have results, a kind of feudal vassalship in the facts, the governor his free and as to be loyal to the emperor.
30% is really big for the time and should be more for byzantium or at the end of the era. at the begining if the king of france control directly 10% it is really good.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

That sounds like a good and fair system. I guess the other games I played during this time period like the "Genghis Khan" games are misleading. Of course that game even moreso since you can say...take an army from england and land in france and conquer it in one battle And then it is yours, and doesnt rebel or anything. I conquered from england to the coast of china that way But this sounds much more realistic and focalized on Europe which is wonderful. I look forward to this one thanks for explaining province claims to me

PS - Can the Spanish conquer any muslim parts of spain or do they need 'claims' first? ( if this has been mentioned is there a thread I can look at..?)