Province reverting to former owner on liberation, making supply impossible?

[Kermit_Mupp]

Supply seems to not work very well all the time, unfortunately.

I've noticed it's sometimes impossible to send supply to certain islands in the pacific as the US.
They simply won't show up in the list of possible destination ports, making it impossible to supply them.

In my last game Rota, north of Guam, was such an island. In my current game Saipan, north of it, was added as well. Neither is even possible to sent supply to. While Pagan, the third island in the same sea area except Guam itself, has always been available as a destination port.

Very strange - someone might know more about this?


But in this game I also started trying to liberate the Dutch East Indies from the Japanese, so I landed in Manado.
Fortunately it was possible to send a supply convoy there - at least to begin with.
But Japan hasn't been able to conquer all of the DEI and after a while the province of Manado that I had liberated and which was controlled by me, reverted to being a DEI province.

Seems reasonable - the US would probably historically give back control to the previous owner in such a situation.

The problem is that this seems to have killed my supply to that province - making it impossible for me to continue liberating the rest of that island as there is at least another Japanese unit I can't shift without supply to my troops.

Is this a know bug and is there some way around this, because this is obviously not intended?
Even if the DEI got nominal control of the province they would surely not stop US from supplying troops fighting to liberate more of their territory.

 

[son of liberty]

It is a bug. @MartinBG is aware of it. In the short term, put a manual claim on a province with a port in the affected area. While you have the claim, you will not return it to the rightfull owner. You can use that port to supply your troops.

 

[^_AC_^]

I've noticed it's sometimes impossible to send supply to certain islands in the pacific as the US.
They simply won't show up in the list of possible destination ports, making it impossible to supply them.

Are you sure that those island need supplies? Perhaps that's why they don't show up, because they don't need supplies. You probably need to send a unit and wait 24 hours for the game to update its supply needs. Please check.
If this is not the case, please provide a savegame.

Seems reasonable - the US would probably historically give back control to the previous owner in such a situation.

IIRC the games returns controlled but not owned provinces of neutral countries to its rightful owner, you can disable this on misct.txt. Honestly it's a difficult case to make this right. If you think this is not working, please provide a savegame (from before the province was returned).

 

[son of liberty]

Hey @^_AC_^ iirc, I gave @MartinBG a save when I had the same problem with DEI playing Japan. Claiming and keeping a province worked. Iirc, I also had the same issue playing usa in 33 after releasing PI. I ended up keeping the port just north east of Manila

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

It is a bug. @MartinBG is aware of it. In the short term, put a manual claim on a province with a port in the affected area. While you have the claim, you will not return it to the rightfull owner. You can use that port to supply your troops.

Thank you for that confirmation - then I know how to handle it then!

(At least as long as the province in question appears as a possible destination for supply convoys.... )

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

Are you sure that those island need supplies? Perhaps that's why they don't show up, because they don't need supplies. You probably need to send a unit and wait 24 hours for the game to update its supply needs. Please check.
If this is not the case, please provide a savegame.

But is that really how the game is meant to work? That a province has to need supply before you could send supply to it?


I've been island hopping as the US against Japan and realized pretty quickly I didn't like the automatic supply as the game tends to draw that from Alaska due south. Which is probably the shortest route - but it's also closer for Japanese attacks. So instead I've drawn all my supply manually from the US west coast due west.


I also noted that invading troops are landed with an initial supply, but if you don't get a supply line up and running ASAP they start taking attrition.
So I've been very careful to set up supply lines as soon as my troops have taken an island - but sometimes it's simply not possible.


Also, when I look at my current game I can tell you that Saipan and Rota - the two islands north of Guam - are now controlled by me, after I invaded them.
But on neither of those islands - that I can't send supply too, because they don't show up as possible destinations in the list - there is any supply dump, whatsoever.
On all other islands I have taken from the Japanese on the other hand, there are small supply dumps left from the initial landing (and sometimes because I stayed there longer and sent over more supply).


So my guess (without knowing anything about coding) is that something has gone wrong in the initial invasion of those provinces, making the game not recognize the change of ownership of the province, perhaps?


I may not have stayed past 24 hours on those islands in this game - but I'm not sure I did so on all the others islands either.
And when I first noticed this in the previous game I did have troops on Rota who where there for several days, taking attrition - and I still couldn't supply them.
Which forced me to evacuate the island.

I can try some more and see if I can figure this out.

IIRC the games returns controlled but not owned provinces of neutral countries to its rightful owner, you can disable this on misct.txt. Honestly it's a difficult case to make this right. If you think this is not working, please provide a savegame (from before the province was returned).

I won't bother changing anything when son of liberty seems to have provided a simple work-around. All I need is somewhere to land my supply, I don't have a problem with DEI regaining control otherwise.

And I do think you just misspoke there, but just to make this clear - in my last game DEI wasn't neutral. It was at war with Japan but she hadn't been able to occupy all her islands and annex her.

 

[son of liberty]

But is that really how the game is meant to work? That a province has to need supply before you could send supply to it?


I think you just misspoke there, but just to make this clear - in my last game DEI wasn't neutral. It was at war with Japan but she hadn't been able to occupy all her islands and annex her.

Imo, I think she meant that DEI was not at war with you. Whether allied or neutral towards you, DEI would get her property returned by USA. Which is probably what we would do "eventually". Keeping operational control to maintain supply seems reasonable imo. That is how I roleplay it in my mind. Regarding the islands Rota, Saipan, etc.... did they still show as under your control? Land belonging to your enemy in a war should not revert back in normal circumstances.

 

[^_AC_^]

But is that really how the game is meant to work? That a province has to need supply before you could send supply to it?

There are a lot of calculations involved in supply management. If the game had to supply useless island, it would be first of all a waste of resource: let's imagine Japan sending unending supplies to a deserted island and USA submarines destroying all convoys, crippling Japan just because it was supplying a deserted island. But, even more important perhaps, supply management is a CPU-heavy part of the engine. Reducing the number of possible destinations, limiting those to place where the supplies are really needed, make the game run faster instead of wasting resources.

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

Imo, I think she meant that DEI was not at war with you. Whether allied or neutral towards you, DEI would get her property returned by USA. Which is probably what we would do "eventually". Keeping operational control to maintain supply seems reasonable imo. That is how I roleplay it in my mind. Regarding the islands Rota, Saipan, etc.... did they still show as under your control? Land belonging to your enemy in a war should not revert back in normal circumstances.

Okay.

Yes, they looked just like every other Japanese territory I had conquered. Two flags in the province window - Japanese in the back and US in the front.
Territory owned by Japan but currently occupied by the US.

The only difference between these two territories and all the others I have taken from Japan is that there is no supply dump what so ever in them - and that they don't show up as possible destination points for supply convoys.

My guess is that this is not a coincident but that the two things are related?

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

There are a lot of calculations involved in supply management. If the game had to supply useless island, it would be first of all a waste of resource: let's imagine Japan sending unending supplies to a deserted island and USA submarines destroying all convoys, crippling Japan just because it was supplying a deserted island. But, even more important perhaps, supply management is a CPU-heavy part of the engine. Reducing the number of possible destinations, limiting those to place where the supplies are really needed, make the game run faster instead of wasting resources.

I don't mod games, I know nothing about that and I'm certainly not going to argue against what you said.
I would just like to point out that in this very instance, what I'm trying to do is to manually tell the game which routes I want to use.
And this works fine with all other territories - and it worked even to Saipan in the previous game I tried.
But not in this one.

So there seem to be some sort of intermittent glitch here?

A pure guess on my part is if it can have something to do with the fact that all these islands are in the same sea area (Mariana Islands) were both Japan and the US have territories at the start of the game?

This is, as far as I know, the only place where this is the case. Maybe that creates some conflict somewhere that results in these random occurrences?

 

[^_AC_^]

I am afraid that without a savegame I cannot reproduce it.
1942 scenario as USA, I placed a unit on Rota:

Then in the economy tab, I disabled automatic supply convoys and clicked on "Create Supply Convoy".
Then, after selecting a province as source, I can see Rota at the bottom of the destinations list:

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

Thank you for all your effort!

But I would have trusted your word as well. I'm just not seeing the same thing in my game, unfortunetly.

I've tried uploading a save game in the other thread now but if that dosen't work I'll have to find a way that does. Either way you will be able to see both this and the situation before Britian gave Japan peace once I get a save game file to you as those are both from the same game.

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

I've played some more and can report more strange behavior - or at least behavior I think seems strange.
I should say I'm playing the WiF-mod and that I continue this thread here because it concerns the same things - and also I'm not actually sure this has anything to do with the mod, or if it's basic game behavior?

Anyway, I still can't send supply to either Saipan or Rota.
This time I looked more closely when I took them from Japan and there does appear a supply dump on both islands when I first invade them - but as I pull the troops out almost immediately (since they can't be supplied) those supply dumps evaporates completely.

This is unlike all other Japanese islands I have invaded in the game, where what is left of that first supply dump on invasion is left behind.
So all other islands have this residual supply dump and all other islands show up as possible destination points for supply - except Saipan and Rota.
I don't think those two things are pure coincidence but somehow related?

Also the British was first to the Philippines and managed to annex and then liberate them after the Japanese had done so.
But they didn't manage to clear out all the Japanese so I later joined in.

Since I wanted to secure my supply and since I wanted to be on the safe side I put a claim on the entire Philippine region.

Some time later Britain suddenly seeded all the provinces in that region she had control over to me - which made me think I needed to supply her units, because otherwise they would suffer the same problem as I had, of not being able to land supply in provinces they don't own - no?

Anyway, I then took a lot of other regions - but after a while they turned British!

And despite Britain previously handing me control over all the territories she had control over, she now refused to hand me back control over the ones I had taken?
So now British and Commonwealth units occupy territories controlled by the US while I control territories controlled by Britain.
But the supply route I sat up before these territories reverted to British control still seems to function.

So I'm confused about how this is meant to work?

Will I as US ever get the Philippines back from Britain so I can annex and then liberate them, so we return to the pre-war situation or did Britain just steal the Philippines from the US for good?

 

[son of liberty]

If the UK ceded control of the Philippines to you, then I don't understand your question. You claimed the islands, UK surrendered them to you because you are allies and they have no claim. So, what is the issue? Did you put claims on Rota and Saipan? Who controls those islands now? I understand that you cannot upload a save, but how about a couple screen shots showing us the problem?

 

[Kermit_Mupp]

If the UK ceded control of the Philippines to you, then I don't understand your question. You claimed the islands, UK surrendered them to you because you are allies and they have no claim. So, what is the issue? Did you put claims on Rota and Saipan? Who controls those islands now? I understand that you cannot upload a save, but how about a couple screen shots showing us the problem?

Maybe I'm not explaining this well but luckily I can provide a save - the problem before seems to be that I hadn't been clear that I was using the WiF-mod.
Axxey figured it out here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/well-this-was-a-suprice.1730284/post-30213228

So I guess the best thing I could do is provide a save game so anyone who wants to have a look at this can. Using the WiF-mod then.

Regarding the Japanese islands Saipan and Rota I have made no claims on them but treated them like all other Japanese islands - simply invaded them.
They look the same as all others, except I can't send supply to them and the supply dumps that land with the invasion disappears soon after.
It's not game breaking, just strange - but it would of course have been more serious if I needed to keep troops there, but luckily I don't.

Regarding screen shots I have to confess I'm such a noob I don't actually know how to take them in game, adjust their size (if they capture the whole screen?) or post them here. I hope a save game says more in this case but I would like to learn to post screen shots - that could come in handy.


EDIT:
I should maybe mention I've also followed your previous advice, son of liberty, and made myself as the US the leader of the allies.
To avoid the British stabbing me in the back again.
Don't know if it makes any differance to this question of control over the Phillipines, but I thought I should mention it, to be on the safe side.

 

[son of liberty]

Sorry, but a save doesn't help me since I don't play WiF anymore. Is there an impassible land connection from Rota/Saipan to another of the islands in the chain?