Questions From a New Player

[unmerged(140901)]

I'm an EU3 player coming to CK.

The issues I'm having centre around my Byzantium campaign.

1) How do I revoke a title without loyalty across the realm droppoing like a stone? Ex: I revoked the Prince of Nicea and everyone starting revolting all over, even though we were at peace and his loyalty was something like 9 already; I can't declare war on him as Emperor so I'm stuck.

2) Is it best to marshall armies before a major war, gather them into 3 or 4 cohesive forces and attack or to marshall afterwards and sit back for a counter-offensive (thinking of fighting the Turks)?

3) What's the best way to hand lands to family members without ripping the empire to shreds? Revoking titles and giving a lord a new title (even a better title) gets them very angry.

4) what is the most cost effective way to maintain a high level of loyalty?

thanks for any advice,

kilarious

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

1) Trying to revoke a title will result in a loyalty-drop, you can't prevent that. If the attempt fails that vassal will lose 25% loyalty. If you succeed all other vassals will lose 25% loyalty. So only do it when your vassals have high loyalty (+90%).

2) That totally depends on what you want to achieve, so I can't really answer that question.

3) Conquer new lands and hand those out to familymembers. Or if you want to revoke titles do it slowly, don't go revoking a bunch of titles in a short perioed. Let your vassals loyalty rise again. Also don't go revoking titles if you have realm duress.

4)
- Have a good reputation
- Have high diplomacy-rating
- Have high prestige
- Have positive piety
- Have Feudal Contract law
- Set scutage tp zero
- Don't have bad traits like kinslayer, heretic, arbitrary.

 

[Snaake]

2) If you want a quick war of conquest, get your troops ready and march them to the border before declaring war (don't have troops in the enemys lands when DoWing, this gives extra BB). You'll be able to steamroll several provinces before they have a chance to react properly. Against large realms like the turks this isn't as effective, you'll still be slogging it out for quite a while, but assuming you're a decent-sized empire, you should be able to get a couple of emirs(dukes) to be your vassals by the time his larger stacks arrive. Then, if you're not feeling too secure about your chances or just want to save money by ending the war (and possibly repeating the same tactics later, when BB has gone down), start spamming white peace offers with King of the Seljuks, or hope for the "heathens are splintered" event.

3) Assuming you've kept elective law, over time you should be able to increase the proportion of land in family members' lands quite easily. This is because each new ruler, who is the strongest vassal and thus probably has quite a bit of land already, will also inherit the demesne and personal duke titles of the previous rulers... the new ruler will have both a kings and dukes demesne and several duke titles, in all likelihood. These can then be granted to relatives (they should be instrumental in determining your next heir) to strengthen the position of your dynasty.

Other than that, go fight some wars of conquest against the heathens.

 

[Yakman]

4) wasn't mentioned previously, but having people in your family or your line of succession, holding titles increases their loyalty.

 

[unmerged(140901)]

Scutage is at zero and I took feudal contract to alleviate the disloyalty issue. I have kinslayer so that might have hurt (the Emperor actually killed his troublesome mother!).

on other notes:
- Have high diplomacy-rating ---> about 10
- Have high prestige ---> very high in my estimation
- Have positive piety ---> always in the positive

Another question arose: the previous Emperor lost sections of Anatolia to the Turks. When I was ready I declared war, but I can't attack the little Shiekdoms inside my borders; did they not answer the call to arms? When I declare war on the Seijuk Empire shouldn't I be at war with the whole thing? If they don't answer the call shouldn't they go independant or something?

Maybe my logic is flawed. Thanks again.

kilarious

Oh and when I assassinate a count with no heir (not caught I might add) should that province become crown land that I can redistribute? I tried this method but it seems a new count just takes their place

 

[Yakman]

when you declare war on the Seljuk Turk King, you only declare war on him personally.

this means that his vassals are not directly at war with you--you cannot take their territories.

usually when you declare war on a King, some of his vassals will declare war on you. but they might not--and their vassals might not either--in which case, only those that have declared war on you can be directly attacked.

if you want to take those tiny sheikdoms, you have to declare war on the individual sheiks. this can be a hassle, but it is what you have to do. if you don't like this, remember that it works in reverse as well--territories that you don't directly own can't be taken by your enemies. as such, i like to take the enemy's territories and immediately give them away to a new or established vassal. then, i don't have to defend them and can move my armies on to further conquests.

as for assassinating your own counts, if they have no heir a "country cousin" will be automatically generated to take over the county. a "country cousin" will generally have the same last name and same ethnicity/religion as the count that was assassinated. unless you are the designated successor for the count, assassinating him does not give you the territory.

in general, offing your own vassals is a bad idea. it doesn't gain you much, and if you are discovered, the consequences can be quite bad. i only assassinate them if they are my bastard sons who legitimize themselves and move to the front of the succession order ahead of my better statted legitimate children.

 

[Snaake]

as for assassinating your own counts, if they have no heir a "country cousin" will be automatically generated to take over the county. a "country cousin" will generally have the same last name and same ethnicity/religion as the count that was assassinated. unless you are the designated successor for the count, assassinating him does not give you the territory.

in general, offing your own vassals is a bad idea. it doesn't gain you much, and if you are discovered, the consequences can be quite bad. i only assassinate them if they are my bastard sons who legitimize themselves and move to the front of the succession order ahead of my better statted legitimate children.

Been meaning to ask about country cousins: do you as the player get them if you have no legitimate successors? I assume no? Also, does the inheritance law of the realm in question have effect on whether country cousins appear or not?

On the second paragraph, I can't help but wonder why you're giving worse-statted bastards more land (that will increase their chances of legitimisation as far as I know) than your designated heir? Isn't he the one who has the best stats to handle it and who you want to have the most money, piety, and prestige when you kick the bucket?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Been meaning to ask about country cousins: do you as the player get them if you have no legitimate successors? I assume no? Also, does the inheritance law of the realm in question have effect on whether country cousins appear or not?

You get a country-cousin if you have no heir at all, regardless of your inheritance-law. Though with elective law you will most likely always have an heir so with that law it is very unlikely that you will get one.

 

[unmerged(147371)]

Yeah, players get country cusins too, I should know, I've gotten one Just make sure you've got Salic law, either primogeniture or consanguinity will do. Otherwise, with Elective or even Semisalic law, chances are there will be some successor available from another dynasty.

As for OPs question regarding the filthy Turk, (no offence to any actual Turks ), what I did with them was pretty much DoW vassals, (not THAT much of a hassle), the smaller the better, and for the most part just force them to be my vassals rather than grabbing their land, unless it so happened I wanted to expand my demesne. As far as I can tell, this kees BB down quite nicely. And no need to worry about the loads of Turkish vassals you'll get, they're as good as any Greek and will turn Orthodox sooner or later. Which in my game led to a massive amount of Turkish, Arab and Persian Orthodox NPCs. Loads of fun, really. As soon as the stacks of doom show up, try to fight them a while if you like, otherwise start spamming for a white peace, like suggested. And grab the "heathens are splintered" event if you're in luck.

On the other hand, when you get to the point of being able to get positive warscore against the bloodthirsty heathens, try to get the Sultan to surrender claims on your good Anatolian land. And generally try to keep any counties the Sultan has claim on in your personal demesne. That prevents idiot NPCs handing over Bithynia to the Sultan when you're still bravely holding off the Turk in the Taurus mountains.

As for the actual question, deffinitely mobilize your own forces before hand and have them ready to blitzkrieg as many Turkish vassals as you can. You might want to wait untill after the DoW to call a general mobilization though, as it seems the chances of vassals mobilizing are better when you're actually in a war. And, as much as you can, try to make sure you're the one declaring war, as opposed to having it declared upon you.

And also, very importantly, on the occassion a vassal splits with the Turks, DoW instantly, and no matter what. Clearly, it would also be a good idea to bring any independent minded vassals of your own quickly back into the fold. While this is true in general, it is all the more true on the critical Turkish border.

Speaking for myself, the first time I really felt succesfull as Byzantium was when I was fighting the Turks in Arabia and Persia, as opposed to where I should have been historically

 

[Snaake]

And, as much as you can, try to make sure you're the one declaring war, as opposed to having it declared upon you.

I seem to recall that taking the lands of your enemy only gives half the BB if you're doing it in a defensive war (you got war declared upon you). Of course, it's hard, if not impossible, to provoke the AI to attacking...

 

[Nick B II]

I seem to recall that taking the lands of your enemy only gives half the BB if you're doing it in a defensive war (you got war declared upon you). Of course, it's hard, if not impossible, to provoke the AI to attacking...

If you're fighting a religious enemy with vassals it's easy to provoke a DoW. Just attack the vassal. The game sees two separate wars -- you attacking the Sheik of Galilee, and the Emir of Jerusalem attacking you. Note that this is extremely gamey.

Re: the original post:
If you're still having trouble with Byzantium try Poland or Bohemia. Historically the Byzantines suffered a major defeat in 1071, and their 1066 position reflects that quite well.

Nick

 

[Snaake]

If you're fighting a religious enemy with vassals it's easy to provoke a DoW. Just attack the vassal. The game sees two separate wars -- you attacking the Sheik of Galilee, and the Emir of Jerusalem attacking you. Note that this is extremely gamey.

Aha, good to know

On the other hand, there have been situations where I was only aiming to take the lands of some Emir, and wasn't really interested in fighting the whole kingdom of Egypt. In such a situation, if I do end up with some other egyptian lands, i'd hardly consider that gamey.

I was originally trying to think of a way to provoke a war that would be unambiguously defensive. Assassinations, for example, just provoke an assassination war. What about declaring a war because an ally or vassal is attacked, I assume the game counts you as the aggressor?

 

[unmerged(133776)]

I was originally trying to think of a way to provoke a war that would be unambiguously defensive. Assassinations, for example, just provoke an assassination war.

AFAIK, Assassinations (successful or unsuccessful) won't lead to DOW's by the AI, but they can lead to return assassination attempts (depending if caught or not).

What about declaring a war because an ally or vassal is attacked, I assume the game counts you as the aggressor?

The game would treat you as the aggressor. From that point of course, depending on who your're DOW'ing, their Liege's/Vassal's/Allies could DOW you. There is one benefit of a DOW via an Ally. Even tho you can't annex the enemies province directly into your personal demesne (if Christian) because you don't have a claim, you can win the siege and get an automatic claim for future use or you can force-vassalize those who are lower ranked than you.

 

[Arko]

AFAIK, Assassinations (successful or unsuccessful) won't lead to DOW's by the AI, but they can lead to return assassination attempts (depending if caught or not).

but assassinations deteriorate seriousely relations and bad relationship is one of the factors that lead to war

 

[Snaake]

AFAIK, Assassinations (successful or unsuccessful) won't lead to DOW's by the AI, but they can lead to return assassination attempts (depending if caught or not).

Yes, what I meant. By "assassination war" I meant that you try to assassinate them once, then if they discover it, they'll start trying to assassinate your dynasty. This can spiral, if you want it to.

 

[unmerged(176048)]

Assassination wars are best avoided. They can easily spread out of your court (since your children might have land of their own, or be fosterlings somewhere else) and can last indefinitely.

It is really bad news if your heir is involved in such a war. Even if he doesn't die, his prestige and piety will drop like a stone if his assassins are discovered. And a new king with low prestige and negative piety will have a very interesting time.