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FizCap

First Lieutenant
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Sep 9, 2012
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I like the features of 2.0 but this levy system has made rebellions very weak.

All province rebellions will usually have 2k troops which is the minimum a province can have and most of the time they won't have more due to low pops. So say a province rebels against Rome, will the rebellion statistically stand a chance against Rome's 50K army? Never.

Suggestion : Provinces should get a levy bonus for being in a rebellion (The levy multiplier). People want their independence so they should get a bonus because an army of 2k is trash and won't accomplish anything or ever be a threat.


Same thing for Civil wars, they're supposed to be what destroy an Empire but they're just an inconvenience at most because same issue, they will only have an army of 2k levyed from the province. if they have multiple provinces it's 2k per province so maybe an army of 6K at most. This is supposed to be the countries wealthiest and strongest people, they should be using their wealth to buy mercenaries and loyalty from governors and all that and change the tide of war. They also don't have cultural assimilation bonuses unlike the country they're rebelling against. If selekid empire doesn't assimilate their cultures, they only get 2k but once they make the Persian culture citizens, now they have 10K troops they can levy. The civil war faction doesn't have that and so they don't get any levies if they're rebelling in Foreign land.

Suggestion : Civil wars should be amassing an army before the Civil War happens, such as buying mercenaries and troops and the loyalty of generals. Then once the civil war starts they'll have a sizeable force. They should also inherit all the cultural civil rights of the country they're rebelling against.

I like this game but they really need to rework rebellions so they're actually a threat and interesting.
 
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Depends on how big the rebellion is. An OPM rebelling shouldn't be a threat. Half the realm, though, now you've got a problem.
They should be at least be able to put up a decent fight, 2K troops is nothing. I was spectating a campaign just to observe what happened once I enabled the mod that got rid of provincial loyalty cheat for AI. Seleucid empire had 8 provinces rebelling while also at war with another major faction and a civil war. Guess what, all the rebellions still lost because their troop numbers were way to low to have any sort of impact. Seleucid empire would just send 5K troops to wipe out the rebellion while fighting the other major faction. The civil war got destroyed and it took up 30% of the country initially. Their army size once they combined was 6k Troops compared to Seleucids 30K.
 
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Part of the solution could be rebellions swearing loyalty to outside powers.

Example:

- Sicily becomes disloyal
- When rebelling it defects and becomes a vassal of carthage
- You get to choose between fighting Carthage over Sicily or concede
 
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Part of the solution could be rebellions swearing loyalty to outside powers.

Example:

- Sicily becomes disloyal
- When rebelling it defects and becomes a vassal of carthage
- You get to choose between fighting Carthage over Sicily or concede
That would also be pretty cool to start conflicts between nations
 
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Part of the solution could be rebellions swearing loyalty to outside powers.

Example:

- Sicily becomes disloyal
- When rebelling it defects and becomes a vassal of carthage
- You get to choose between fighting Carthage over Sicily or concede
This is a really good idea, and realistic too. It would add a new dynamic way to create conflicts between rival powers. There is currently a symilar dynamic (I admit I'm not very familiar with it) with the covert diplomatic option to support rebels in which the supporting power will automatically join any rebellion wars triggered while active, but it would be nice if a spontaneous rebellion activelly seeks outside support from culturally similar powers.

I know that rebel tags can activelly offer alliances, but since they are so small and usually short lived it would make sense for them to directly offer a tributary or clientelary relation to a hopefuly benevolent overlord.
 
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I think that when rebellion happens all neighbouring provinces with loyalty below certain point like below 30% should rebel at the same moment. For example In Lower Egypt I have all provinces disloyal and one reaches 0% then whole Lower Egypt should rebel under one tag plus have bonuses to levies like OP mentioned.

As it works now I just need to put one rebellion after another when playing Egypt or Seleukids. One province rebells then after few months province next to it etc - it's annoying, not fun and not challanging.

Civil wars are a joke and always had been in Imperator. I don't even have a strenght to talk about them anymore. I will just repeat that in Eu: Rome I had civil wars all the time and they were hard and bloody. In Imperator during 120 hours I had like 3 civil wars, two of them I let happen on purpose. All of them were no threat at all.
 
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I honestly think rebellions should be reworked to not be on the provincial level. At least, no individual province should rebel unless they were spurred on by a foreign power - and even then they should drag in that power who uses "protecting the liberty of our allies" as a casus belli, like Rome did on many occasions. Instead, they should be shifted up to the Regional level, or at least rebel with more than one province at a time, and unrest should be able to spread. So if you had one disloyal province, the unrest from there wouldn't just stay put - it would spread to neighbouring provinces, spurred on by things like road networks and reactions to how the governor is dealing with the unrest. I also think loyalty in provinces, once it tips real low, should be a bit more interactive, where the governor of the region would respond to events. This could result in for example a mass crucifixion that gave a short one-time boost to loyalty but a 10-year malus to ticking loyalty as the friends and family of the deceased remember - things like that.
 
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Part of the solution could be rebellions swearing loyalty to outside powers.

Example:

- Sicily becomes disloyal
- When rebelling it defects and becomes a vassal of carthage
- You get to choose between fighting Carthage over Sicily or concede
Post this in the suggestion forum. It's a brilliant idea.
 
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I feel like having one small province at the border of your empire rebel is really a non-issue. Rebellions and riots were common, they happened and were put down.

But having a chain effect of rebellions cause more trouble is something that also happens. Regions can rise up and band together. They are very much a pushover.

Something like guerilla warfare or killing of your nations colonists (like sardinia and corsica colonization mission for rome) would be more of a challange
 
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