Reconstruction Game: Kingdom of Heaven

[unmerged(80795)]

My problem with appointing Fncuo as GM as he has made it clear that I'm basically an evil, NAP breaker. I've typed out some good posts I think showing that this isn't the case, and also admitting that I need to make my NAP more clear next time. If I'm barred from joining the new game, not sure what to do.

EDIT :

Editing out the CoT to the east is ridiculous. Fnuco had more CoT then this by this time. He had 6. In fact, KoP's Spain is not as good as you think. If I recall, Fnuco's Spain was much better in the first Kingdom of heaven game. We actually canceled the first game because it was clear Fnuco won lol. So taking out eastern CoT's I'm against.

We are in the middle of a war that I believe we will win, if Spain's economy is reduced so drastically, we will lose. In fact, Spain's economy is not much better then OE's. I say take out the Gov's and reduce the Infra, just to be safe. But about the maps, that's totally unnecessary.

everything is necessary. I don't care what Fnuco did in other games. We're speaking of this campaign.

I asked some veterans about Spanish technology, and many of them agreed that is impossible to reach infra 5 in 1525-30 in vanilla and having at the same time 10% inflation...

And Nob, your NAP breaking is NOTHING compared to what KoP did... and I understand that there's no rule about NAP management.

About the WAR. c'mon, Spain with trade 4, infra 5 and land 16, of course you will win... that's why I want to edit Spain hardly, and give Austria a WP. But this will be quite unfair for Poland and Russia which are making some progress. I think we should discard Poland in favor of Netherlands, so Fnuco can start again, we're taking stuff in the east off of Spain that i understand it is vital to let NL grow.

Russia finally could take Lithuania and Poland as it wants. Austria will have no enemy in Poland because it'll be AI... i think it's a balanced alternative.

 

[unmerged(83394)]

everything is necessary. I don't care what Fnuco did in other games. We're speaking of this campaign.

I asked some veterans about Spanish technology, and many of them agreed that is impossible to reach infra 5 in 1525-30 in vanilla and having at the same time 10% inflation...

And Nob, don't worry, your NAP breaking is NOTHING compared to what KoP did... and I understand that there's no rule about NAP management, so I think i support your point of view about it.

About the WAR. c'mon, Spain with trade 4, infra 5 and land 16, of course you will win... that's why I want to edit Spain hardly, and give Austria a WP towards all. But this will be quite unfair for Poland and Russia, so I think we should discard Poland in favor of Netherlands, so Fnuco can begin again, so taking stuff in the east off of Spain is vital to let NL grow, cheating in exploration might let a newbie spain to reach that far as far as I'm concerned...

And Russia finally can take Lithuania and Poland as he wants. Austria will have no enemy in Poland because it'll be AI... i think it's fair.

I suggest lowering military tech to 13, and infra to 4, and then finding a good sub and we can fight this war fairly. We can edit out the governors, so Spain won't be seen as ultra powerful.

We need the sub for Spain. No sub, and Austria dies lol. You can lower the military tech and infra, and then we can duke this out.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

I suggest lowering military tech to 13, and infra to 4, and then finding a good sub and we can fight this war fairly. We can edit out the governors, so Spain won't be seen as ultra powerful.

We need the sub for Spain. No sub, and Austria dies lol. You can lower the military tech and infra, and then we can duke this out.

if you're giving Spain land 13, then we have to lessen a trade tech level, trade 3. However I prefer not to weaken Spain that much. Land tech sounds reasonable, take a look to stats.

I've been studying stats. It's hard to detect cheating that way. I've found huge changes in technology and incomes, even exploration and naval power. But i want to compare end of session saves with beginning of the session ones in order to gather real evidence.

Uls.

 

[unmerged(43658)]

can we get any official explanation from the moderators why exactly KoP was banned?

 

[unmerged(83394)]

if you're giving Spain land 13, then we have to lessen a trade tech level, trade 3. However I prefer not to weaken Spain that much. Land tech sounds reasonable, take a look to stats.

I've been studying stats. It's hard to detect cheating that way. I've found huge changes in technology and incomes, even exploration and naval power. But i want to compare end of session saves with beginning of the session ones in order to gather real evidence.

Uls.

hrm, lowering trade to 3 is abit unrealistic. A good Spanish player would be ALMOST equal to where KoP is now, to be honest. The only reason why his stats seem amazing is because we put good players in bad countries and bad players in good countries. Spain should be this much above the others at this time. Keep trade at 4 and lower infra and military tech, keep the maps. Trust me, he's not doing as good as you think. Considering France was controlled by a newb most of the game, I think any of us could be where he was, except for Infra and explorations. Military tech is definitely achievable.

If we weaken Spain too much, I will whine incessantly.

note : About increase in naval power, that is completely understandable. KoP did not colonize all that much for Spain. So what could he do with all of his gold? Well, fund my constant war mongering, but besides that what could he do? He could build massive armies. I suggested that he build a naval fleet in between last session, because we were already planning for your downfall

I think we are giving his Spain too much credit, to be honest. If Spain is played right and OE is played to it's maximum potential, Spain by this period could be a monster. In fact, by 1515, iirc, Spain had annexed Aztecs and Incas. Right there your getting a monster economy, not even including Spain's potential for trading.

The only suspicious thing I see is Infra 5. If we could see some stats from other games controlled by a decent Spain, we would see that these stats are not THAT unrealistic. You have to take into account that all of the good players took bad countries, thus allowing Spain's economy to appear stronger then it really is. If we would have put Fnuco in France, I can say, most assuredly, that his economy would be right up there with Spain's. If we would have put Grabah in Spain, I suspect that he would have done just as well.

Also, not to accuse Fnuco, but he has some interesting stats to, in terms of naval size. I don't think he cheated, but sometimes stats can be deceiving.

EDIT : He also did not convert much. This would give him more gold to spend on building an army and navy.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

Trust me, he's not doing as good as you think.

How do you know?

the only session Spain did it reasonable was when Qorten subbed it...

listen, I know you want to win this war. However I bet you don't want to restart, because that's what I'll be asking if we don't edit Spain hardly. I don't know what's legal or not in this Spain... it's just the fact that I was humilliated constantly with this Spain and the previous GM, I don't want to play a war where a ficticious Spain is defeating me (and it could be worse, thanks Gaia he showed 0 experience in the battle field, that's why i killed Farnese). so i demand a WP, edits, replacements if necessary, that or a restart that in my opinion would kill this game, this MP-group and future multiplayer games. a really bad precedent.

Btw, don't forget to check end session saved files, beginning of the session saved files, middle of the session rehost saved. Check leaders' life time with Vanilla's, gold, inflation, armies and fleets, technology and investment, fortifications, conversions, trade and monopolies, diplomacy relations and deals with AI, everything.

Also check yourselves if you were weakened somekind and you didn't realise.

BurningEGO, is it possible to edit events? can he edit my naval reform event out?

I checked Selim/Suleyman's born/death times , guess what, they both died before their death time, suspicious thing. there's also a naval leader called "Barberus" admiral 5450 that it was supposed to be born in 1525 (end/start of the 4th session), he has never spawned...

well, now I think a restart is reasonable, since I want Suleyman back if KoP killed him by edition. Not having Barberus was a cruel disadvantage too, not having the naval reform was a total crap. What can I say, gentlemen, this is humilliating...

 

[unmerged(80795)]

note : About increase in naval power, that is completely understandable. KoP did not colonize all that much for Spain. So what could he do with all of his gold? Well, fund my constant war mongering, but besides that what could he do? He could build massive armies. I suggested that he build a naval fleet in between last session, because we were already planning for your downfall .

And at the same time he minted, invested, made sails, colonised, traded, explored and had a war in India... it's just suspicious.

I think we are giving his Spain too much credit, to be honest. If Spain is played right and OE is played to it's maximum potential, Spain by this period could be a monster. In fact, by 1515, iirc, Spain had annexed Aztecs and Incas. Right there your getting a monster economy, not even including Spain's potential for trading.

The only suspicious thing I see is Infra 5. If we could see some stats from other games controlled by a decent Spain, we would see that these stats are not THAT unrealistic. You have to take into account that all of the good players took bad countries, thus allowing Spain's economy to appear stronger then it really is. If we would have put Fnuco in France, I can say, most assuredly, that his economy would be right up there with Spain's. If we would have put Grabah in Spain, I suspect that he would have done just as well.

Also, not to accuse Fnuco, but he has some interesting stats to, in terms of naval size. I don't think he cheated, but sometimes stats can be deceiving.

EDIT : He also did not convert much. This would give him more gold to spend on building an army and navy.

I don't want to use stats to prove anything, as I said, i want to compare saves. Nevertheless, I doubt about a lot of things, punish Spain heavily or we're restarting, as simple as that.

 

[BurningEGO]

BurningEGO, is it possible to edit events? can he edit my naval reform event out?

It is possible to edit events (and their results) as a host, and it is possible to edit your naval reform out. Regarding leaders, Barberus only spawns if you dont vassalize Al-Djazair via event.

 

[unmerged(43658)]

gentleman let's keep our calm here.
i just went through 1542 saves, both, end of the session save fnuco made i belive (one in the stats) and 1542 save we used to start our last session.
i went trough all of it and they appear identical.
only difference is they are 2 days apart. so there are some difference in army movement and ai relations. i assume fnuco made his save little bit earlier or he was lagging.
does anyone have 1525 save KoP used to host? ****this is crucial so please everyone check****
or at least some save close to it (but made after 1525)
how much session did KoP hosted? last two right?
if it's true all the evidence should be in 1525 saves.
and to who i must talk to get some info from the moderators?

 

[unmerged(83394)]

And at the same time he minted, invested, made sails, colonised, traded, explored and had a war in India... it's just suspicious.



I don't want to use stats to prove anything, as I said, i want to compare saves. Nevertheless, I doubt about a lot of things, punish Spain heavily or we're restarting, as simple as that.

Uh.. You are trying to save your country perhaps? You are trying to cling to Veneto? I urge you to look at the stats. I'm not bragging, but I could have had a Spain that is near to this one. We lower land tech, we lower infra, we prohibit cheating in the future, and we continue this war. This is fair. But Spain given the circumstances, should be the most powerful country. You seem to not acknowledge that. If a good player was in Spain and a newb in France, this is how the game would turn out. Don't be biased, Uls. Spain should be the strongest power, at least until bankruptcy events come around.

 

[unmerged(83394)]

yeah, we would appreciate a reason for KoP's ban. If it was because of insulting, well, we would call you biased. If you look at Alek, he insulted KoP in another thread, and has insulted in this thread, yet he is not banned. If it is because of cheating, please produce the evidence.

btw, if it turns out he didn't cheat, then this ban is a travesty of justice.

 

[unmerged(80795)]

Uh.. You are trying to save your country perhaps? You are trying to cling to Veneto? I urge you to look at the stats. I'm not bragging, but I could have had a Spain that is near to this one. We lower land tech, we lower infra, we prohibit cheating in the future, and we continue this war. This is fair. But Spain given the circumstances, should be the most powerful country. You seem to not acknowledge that. If a good player was in Spain and a newb in France, this is how the game would turn out. Don't be biased, Uls. Spain should be the strongest power, at least until bankruptcy events come around.

I'm not biased sir, I'm just having reasonable doubts. As I said, i don't care if i lose the war, but i care if I lose it when Spain took advantage of a higher technology and a long etc. for DECADES that made her enough powerful to beat France and Oe at the same time in 1550 when nations are still in construction.

If you want to continue the war, I don't mind. In fact it'll benefit me. your choice.

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any clue why the spanish sucession of Netherlands didn't fire yet? heh, and at this point I'd even check if the bankrupcies will happen. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(80795)]

yeah, we would appreciate a reason for KoP's ban. If it was because of insulting, well, we would call you biased. If you look at Alek, he insulted KoP in another thread, and has insulted in this thread, yet he is not banned. If it is because of cheating, please produce the evidence.

btw, if it turns out he didn't cheat, then this ban is a travesty of justice.

He was banned because he used different nicks -KoP is one of his- instead of Troy. And as EGO pointed out, Troy cheated heavily in other MP-games. I don't know if he was banned before. In conclusion double account made him get banned, not the cheating accusation, Nob.

KoP is a thing of the past. Anyone up to continue or to restart this campaign this sunday? or thursday?

oh, gentlemen, you'd better not play with someone you know is banned, for your own safety.

 

[unmerged(83394)]

Well, I'm gonna be honest here. If we get a competent sub for Spain, the game will be unbalanced. This isn't because Troy cheated, but because France was controlled by a newb for too long in the game. Because of this, Poland wasn't able to reach it's capacity, fighting Spain and Austria without having any help from France. Not to mention when France was around he couldn't battle his way out of a paper bag. I don't know if it's because I'm picky, but I think it is necessary to have 7-8 committed players in order to insure balance game play. I think it would avoid this type of 'super power' alliance that evidently is going to emerge after this war.

As I said, with Spain losing the CRT advantage and losing some of it's economic capacity, I think this will be a tough war and require strategy on both sides. I will not play if you give me Jose from the sub of spain!

Mio did very well in the NAPPY we played, and Ego has a reputation as a great warrior. I think having either of them just for the ensuing war would be great. Now, I chose not to give NL to Spain since Fnuco said he wanted to keep playing Poland. I'm not going to release NL this game, I can't afford to lose the provinces and the COT.

EDIT : Add Alek to the list. First session as Muscowy in other game he went nuts. If he has time to play, he would be a great sub for Spain. If I remember, Alek, you started new schedule for school and playing on Thursdays is hard, but maybe we could get a Sunday session and you could join as a sub for Spain in the midst of a war.

 

[Aleksidze]

Just start a new campaign, this one was poisoned from the beginning

 

[unmerged(87693)]

I am for a brand new game. Who will make one?

 

[unmerged(80795)]

I am for a brand new game. Who will make one?

We have to meditate our alternatives before re-starting. As we lack time to re-organise, we could just gather tomorrow and decide what to do.

 

[Mungojerrie]

Hello!

When are you supposed to play? I could sub Spain so that it won't become unbalanced.

 

[Duque Alesandro]

Hello!

When are you supposed to play? I could sub Spain so that it won't become unbalanced.

We are trying to play tomorrow 22h GMT, it isn't?

 

[unmerged(80795)]

We are trying to play tomorrow 22h GMT, it isn't?

let's just gather and see what we're doing.

BTW Alek, what are you voting for in Venezuela today? "yes" or "no"?

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Just start a new campaign, this one was poisoned from the beginning

KoP's incompetence was higher than I thought. he completely ruined a game: he soundly failed in the rule and players management. Then he already had an account in paradox, cheating accusation on the table and a very poor GMing, he also was completely biased and stubborn. People like him only makes me believe the worst about humanity. There was no logic in what he did, a completely irresponsible autodestructive attitude.

what makes me flash out a lot is how he came to the conclusion it'd be logical to cheat in games, what kind of sick fun he wanted to have here, and what makes me exasperate, why did he use real people to accomplish his sickness? It is just disgusting, he could have used AI in order to satisfy his immorality.

See you tonight.

Ulschmidt.