Religion and culture feels disconnected, on a map basis

[Muezzahan]

Would German cultures take more in becoming Asatru, instead of Catholic?

German cultures shouldn't become asatru at all imo. "Pagan" religions should be unique to their cultures. While other faiths like christianity should be universal.
Still, converting catholic german counties into catharism should be easier than converting them into islam.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

**To keep it as brief as I can, the Emperor was "technically" the nominal head of the church in that the patriarchs were "vassals" of the Emperor (Ceaseropapism) and the five highest patriarchs in the empire (the Pentarchy) Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria were all of equal rank but the patriarch of Constantinople was the "first amongst equals".

What CK3 entirely ignores is in 867 Catholicism and Orthodoxy don't actually exist at this point.* They are a single united christian faith commonly called Nicene Creed**

I am going to be pedantic b/c why not.
Constantinople was set up as "second only to Rome", not first among equals in 391*, and reaffirmed as such explicitly in 451**. The Pentarchy was formally established after all this***. Rome was the see given the first among equals status, but as Saint Cyril demonstrated in 428-431, Rome's actual influence in matters of high theology was weak b/c they generally don't know Greek and cannot participate in the Greek-speaking East's arguments.
But as she demonstrated in 1204, so long as secular military power was willing to cooperate, Rome could have the church-wide supremacy she dreams of every day. Then again, when this power fails, such a forced union falling apart easily marks the actual Great Schism.

*1 Constantinople. Holding this ecu council was one of the reasons Theodosius I is revered to this day.
** Chalcedon.
*** During the rule of Justinian the Great (527-565).

German cultures shouldn't become asatru at all imo. "Pagan" religions should be unique to their cultures. While other faiths like christianity should be universal.
Still, converting catholic german counties into catharism should be easier than converting them into islam.

I wonder how you envision the Uyghur Khaganate's multi-way split between local Tengri shamanism, Buddhism (Mahayana?), Church of the East (no longer Nestorian by that time) and Manichaeism.

 

[treb]

I am going to be pedantic b/c why not.
Constantinople was set up as "second only to Rome", not first among equals in 391*, and reaffirmed as such explicitly in 451**. The Pentarchy was formally established after all this***. Rome was the see given the first among equals status, but as Saint Cyril demonstrated in 428-431, Rome's actual influence in matters of high theology was weak b/c they generally don't know Greek and cannot participate in the Greek-speaking East's arguments.
But as she demonstrated in 1204, so long as secular military power was willing to cooperate, Rome could have the church-wide supremacy she dreams of every day. Then again, when this power fails, such a forced union falling apart easily marks the actual Great Schism.

*1 Constantinople. Holding this ecu council was one of the reasons Theodosius I is revered to this day.
** Chalcedon.
*** During the rule of Justinian the Great (527-565).

Fair, I got some of the details wrong.

I wonder how you envision the Uyghur Khaganate's multi-way split between local Tengri shamanism, Buddhism (Mahayana?), Church of the East (no longer Nestorian by that time) and Manichaeism.

The issue there is ck3 doesn't really model minority cultures/groups and any of their institutions.

German cultures shouldn't become asatru at all imo. "Pagan" religions should be unique to their cultures. While other faiths like christianity should be universal.
Still, converting catholic german counties into catharism should be easier than converting them into islam.

You do realize Asatru was just the latest form of Germanic paganism? Asatru is only associated with the Norse because they were last Germanic peoples to practice it.
In fact the Saxons(of mainland Germany) were pagan and the last of them were only finally subdued and forcibly converted in 804.

 

[GhostDanny]

I do always try to make every county in my demesne, of my culture and faith.
And my custom faiths generally have communal identity as well.

Creating one people of both culture and mind.

 

[tribnia]

Again, polytheism should just use a different logic. I:R system is more suitable for polytheism.

 

[GhostDanny]

Again, polytheism should just use a different logic. I:R system is more suitable for polytheism.

I would like at least to see AI's with a pluralist faith, allowing any other pluralist faith AI's to remain practising their faith in peace.
As they all are pluralist, they shouldn't see any problem with co-existing together.

 

[Pups' Socks]

Still, converting catholic german counties into catharism should be easier than converting them into islam.

So say, should converting Bosnian counties to Catholicism or Orthodoxy should be easier than converting them to Islam?

 

[TheLeviathanOfLevistus]

I too cannot imagine Hellenistic Germans.

And i can't imagine hellenistic germans.

Can you imagine Hellenistic Egyptians? How about Hellenistic Persians? Hellenistic Jews? Or Hellenistic Buddhist Indians? Because all of those existed historically.

While religion and culture are related and influence each other, it is wrong to assume there are religions that cannot spread to other cultures. And the statement of local cultures “perverting” religion or vice versa is wrong and gross.

 

[TheLeviathanOfLevistus]

German cultures shouldn't become asatru at all imo. "Pagan" religions should be unique to their cultures. While other faiths like christianity should be universal.
Still, converting catholic german counties into catharism should be easier than converting them into islam.

Oh, so Hermetism didn’t exist then? Because Greek religion was unique to their culture, Neo-Platonism didn’t influence other religious movements (Christianity, Gnosticism, Kabbalah)? Some of the most interesting religious movements in history exist because religions merged with foreign beliefs and practices. Pagan religions absolutely do assimilate other religions and spread to other cultures. That was an important part of Hellenization and Romanization. Pagan religions are by no means “unique to their culture.”

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Can you imagine Hellenistic Egyptians? How about Hellenistic Persians? Hellenistic Jews? Or Hellenistic Buddhist Indians? Because all of those existed historically.

Based on geographic lived experience, Egyptians, Persians and Jews becoming Hellenistic isn't that much of a stretch, everybody at some point had their ass on the Med coast.
Indians kinda stretch it, and Germans stretch it even more.

 

[Muezzahan]

You do realize Asatru was just the latest form of Germanic paganism? Asatru is only associated with the Norse because they were last Germanic peoples to practice it.
In fact the Saxons(of mainland Germany) were pagan and the last of them were only finally subdued and forcibly converted in 804.

Then make them belong in the same religion, like how catholic and orthodox is

 

[Muezzahan]

I wonder how you envision the Uyghur Khaganate's multi-way split between local Tengri shamanism, Buddhism (Mahayana?), Church of the East (no longer Nestorian by that time) and Manichaeism.

Tengri: Original pagan faith of ughurs
Buddhism: universal faith
Christianity: Universal faith

I see no problem with uyghurs believing these faith.
What i complain about, is when they get conquered by tibetians and convert into tibetian pagan faith !

 

[Muezzahan]

So say, should converting Bosnian counties to Catholicism or Orthodoxy should be easier than converting them to Islam?

Considering how bosniaks are still a minority in balkans after 500 years under islamic rule, yes.

 

[GhostDanny]

Hellenism is more of an old Greek faith, rather than an old Roman faith.
Did the Romans actually worship Zeus? I thought it was Jupiter?

 

[Muezzahan]

While religion and culture are related and influence each other, it is wrong to assume there are religions that cannot spread to other cultures. And the statement of local cultures “perverting” religion or vice versa is wrong and gross.

I am sorry if i offended anyone, english is not my native language. And i have a hard time finding the right words.

Anyways, I am not against conversion, i am against ABSURD conversion.

Take a look at this image.

This is the cultural map, now focus on karluk culture.

80 years after start of the game, and they believe in:
Tengrism
Maturidism
Nestorian
Khurmazta
Khyarwe Bön
Manichean

Now, tengri, maturidi, nestorian and manichean makes sense.
But Khyarwe Bön ? A tibetian pagan faith ? It doesn't make any sense AT ALL.
Same for the khurmatza, it is a zoroastrian faith.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Same for the khurmatza, it is a zoroastrian faith.

Khurmazta specifically is a faith practiced by the Sogdians and beyond regulation of the Magi - which means it isn't strictly speaking Mazdanyasna, and it spread as Sogdians traded along the Silk Road to various peoples such as the Turks, and at the end of the road, to the Chinese in Sichuan. Studies indicated the popular Chinese folk deity Erlang Shen is none other than a Sinicized Weshparkar, who is highly revered amongst the Sogdians.
I don't have the studies on hand though.

 

[Aztlantix]

Long time ago I made a post that certain cultural ethos or traditions should corelate with certain religious tenets

For example:
diasporic tradition correlates with communal identity tenet
Dharmic Pacifism tenet correlates with pacifism tradition

And therefore whenever culture and faith clicks like that, characters have easier time converting to it and staying in the faith

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I am sorry if i offended anyone, english is not my native language. And i have a hard time finding the right words.

Anyways, I am not against conversion, i am against ABSURD conversion.

Take a look at this image.
View attachment 1275418
This is the cultural map, now focus on karluk culture.
View attachment 1275420
80 years after start of the game, and they believe in:
Tengrism
Maturidism
Nestorian
Khurmazta
Khyarwe Bön
Manichean

Now, tengri, maturidi, nestorian and manichean makes sense.
But Khyarwe Bön ? A tibetian pagan faith ? It doesn't make any sense AT ALL.
Same for the khurmatza, it is a zoroastrian faith.

Khurmatza starts bordering that region. It's not unreasonable for it to spread. However, that's not needed, since the area that's Khurmatza in that picture *starts* as Khurmatza in 867. It's been culture converted to Karluk, but not yet religiously converted.

It'd be interesting to know what the ruler of the Khyarwe Bön land is, culturally and religiously, as it's possible they're Bonpo and are part way through converting the area, such that they've managed to get the religious conversion to fire, but not the cultural conversion.

 

[zeruosi]

Khurmazta specifically is a faith practiced by the Sogdians and beyond regulation of the Magi - which means it isn't strictly speaking Mazdanyasna, and it spread as Sogdians traded along the Silk Road to various peoples such as the Turks, and at the end of the road, to the Chinese in Sichuan. Studies indicated the popular Chinese folk deity Erlang Shen is none other than a Sinicized Weshparkar, who is highly revered amongst the Sogdians.
I don't have the studies on hand though.

The birth and development of Erlang God incorporate a variety of different gods and religions and cannot be traced back to a single source. Initially, it contained the beliefs of the ancient Shu people. Later, it was combined with Li Bing's younger son, a historical figure. Subsequently, it continued to integrate many other gods and religions. Therefore, Erlang God now even has three surnames. It is inaccurate to attribute it to a single religious source.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

German cultures shouldn't become asatru at all imo. "Pagan" religions should be unique to their cultures. While other faiths like christianity should be universal.
Still, converting catholic german counties into catharism should be easier than converting them into islam.

Pagan is in the eye of the beholder. It's not a useful term here.

As for being universalist, isn't that what being righteous/fundamentalist or having mendicant preachers already signifies?