Religion

[Martinus]

Originally posted by The Leper King
But you might not view it as fair since it's a Catholic article. "And we all know about the accuracy of history written by the victors."

I think we can safely agree on two things,

1. Majority of albigensian studies agree that the original cathar beliefs are impossible to recreate at the moment due to corruption of them in inquisition sources,

2. Outside of religious catholic universities, it is agreed that catholic studies are not the most reliable as far as heresies are concerned.

Now, back to the original topic. I hope there are different types of heretics to put to torch.

 

[unmerged(8303)]

I hope so too - I hope execution method is also available with different bonuses and consequences. perhaps we can crucify the cathars.

BTW martinus, what is up with new avatar?

 

[Havard]

Originally posted by Jaron
BTW martinus, what is up with new avatar?

St. Patrick's Day I guess...

(Slainte!)

 

[unmerged(11620)]

Originally posted by Martinus
I think we can safely agree on two things,

1. Majority of albigensian studies agree that the original cathar beliefs are impossible to recreate at the moment due to corruption of them in inquisition sources

No I don't agree. I've studied the history of the inquisition. They were rather bureaucratic and as such generally keept good accurate records. It was important for them to be legalistic about things. Some of the best records from the time are those of the Holy Office.

 

[crazy canuck]

Originally posted by Martinus
I think we can safely agree on two things,

1. Majority of albigensian studies agree that the original cathar beliefs are impossible to recreate at the moment due to corruption of them in inquisition sources,

2. Outside of religious catholic universities, it is agreed that catholic studies are not the most reliable as far as heresies are concerned.

Now, back to the original topic. I hope there are different types of heretics to put to torch.

I was going to say that this was a most satisfactory way to end this string within a thread, but after having read the post of the Leper King I don't think that we will even get agreement on that.

True the inquisition records were detailed. But from what I have read they were detailed records of people telling the inquisitors what the inquisitors wished to hear under torture or the threat of torture. The sources I have read frankly say that the inquisition materials are our only substantial source left (because of the destruction of much of the Cathars own documents) but everyone seems to accept that the inquisition documents must be viewed with some scepticism given the circumstances in which they were created.

And now back to the purpose of the original thread. I agree, hopefully there will not be a homogenous Catholic Church. I hope there will be a number of heresies to stamp out. How else is a righteous knight supposed to gain prestige?

 

[unmerged(11620)]

Originally posted by crazy canuck
True the inquisition records were detailed. But from what I have read they were detailed records of people telling the inquisitors what the inquisitors wished to hear under torture or the threat of torture. The sources I have read frankly say that the inquisition materials are our only substantial source left (because of the destruction of much of the Cathars own documents) but everyone seems to accept that the inquisition documents must be viewed with some scepticism given the circumstances in which they were created.

One last thought from me. It is true that many modern historians don't consider the information on the theology of the Albigensians, as reported by the Inquisition, to be wholly accurate. However, this sentiment comes from an assumption on the part of the historians. There are of course other sources of information we do know, for instance, that the Albigensians had contact with the Cathari of the East, (the Bogomili and Paulicans) in Italy they often disagreed with the other over theology, to the point of mutually condemning each other. They of course disagreed on the relationship between the two opposing principles (good/evil).

And now back to the purpose of the original thread. I agree, hopefully there will not be a homogenous Catholic Church. I hope there will be a number of heresies to stamp out. How else is a righteous knight supposed to gain prestige?

Don't worry, this is my absolute last post on this subject on this thread.

 

[Martinus]

Originally posted by The Leper King
No I don't agree. I've studied the history of the inquisition. They were rather bureaucratic and as such generally keept good accurate records. It was important for them to be legalistic about things. Some of the best records from the time are those of the Holy Office.

I said "outside of catholic sources". I assume you are a catholic. Q.E.D.

 

[crazy canuck]

Leper King. I owe you an apology. Somehow I missed your lengthy post responding to my request for additional books on the subject. Thank you, I will read them with interest.