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First working-thread : religion.

We need to discuss about the setup of the religions, especially in Asia/Africa, but it can deviate to America. Europe has been already settled (IMHO), so it can be left out.

For America, current religion is pagan, for every country, with the possibility (through random events) to convert to protestantism or catholicism. I don't think the setup has to be changed, as paganism is especially suited to them. We could decide to change the random events, to add one for sunni (thanks to Granada taking a more active role).

Africa : presently, it's :
- muslim in all northern countries and in Zanj, Songhai and Mali (Mali will probably shift to pagan in a random event)
- orthodox in Nubia and Ethiopia (with Nubia having high probabilities to turn sunni)
- all other countries (Benin, Ashanti, Kongo, Zimbabwe, Zulu, Xhosa) are pagans, but with random events enabling them to become sunni, catholic or reformed

Asia :
- nearly all indian provinces are hindu, but northern countries (except Johdpur) have sunni as state religion ; southern countries (Orissa, Vijayanagar and Mysore, as well as Johdpur) are hindu
- southeast asia (and Tibet too) is buddhist, provinces and countries, except Champa (hindu, as well as provinces) and Malacca (sunni, provinces too)
- in Indonesia, only Mataram is hindu, while Atjeh, Makassar and Brunei are sunni
- China, Manchu, Korea & Nippon are confucianists
- the rest is sunni, with some shiite provinces in Oman and 'Persia', and only Oman has shiite state culture
 
lawkeeper said:
First working-thread : religion.

We need to discuss about the setup of the religions, especially in Asia/Africa, but it can deviate to America. Europe has been already settled (IMHO), so it can be left out.

For America, current religion is pagan, for every country, with the possibility (through random events) to convert to protestantism or catholicism. I don't think the setup has to be changed, as paganism is especially suited to them. We could decide to change the random events, to add one for sunni (thanks to Granada taking a more active role).
Click to expand...

America, leave it as is, religion, set-up, everything, well for now at least.

lawkeeper said:
Africa : presently, it's :
- muslim in all northern countries and in Zanj, Songhai and Mali (Mali will probably shift to pagan in a random event)
- orthodox in Nubia and Ethiopia (with Nubia having high probabilities to turn sunni)
- all other countries (Benin, Ashanti, Kongo, Zimbabwe, Zulu, Xhosa) are pagans, but with random events enabling them to become sunni, catholic or reformed
Click to expand...

Southern end should definatly stay pagen. Nubia and Ethiopia should maybe stay orthodox, although I have seen some wierd things here, like Byzamtum diplo annaxs them. I nominate Ethiopia as a canidate for change to hindu or budisum, although if we do change it, we should look at how that effects Egypt since it has a couple of interactive events with it.

Western Africa might need a revamp, although that would hurt Granada

lawkeeper said:
Asia :
- nearly all indian provinces are hindu, but northern countries (except Johdpur) have sunni as state religion ; southern countries (Orissa, Vijayanagar and Mysore, as well as Johdpur) are hindu
- southeast asia (and Tibet too) is buddhist, provinces and countries, except Champa (hindu, as well as provinces) and Malacca (sunni, provinces too)
- in Indonesia, only Mataram is hindu, while Atjeh, Makassar and Brunei are sunni
- China, Manchu, Korea & Nippon are confucianists
- the rest is sunni, with some shiite provinces in Oman and 'Persia', and only Oman has shiite state culture
Click to expand...

Here is what I want in Asia:
- Make India all hindu, with the border in and around afganistan
- Southeast asia, China and Nippon are fine
- I would like to see a united Hindu Indonesia as a trading colonial empire
- i am not concerded about the lack of shiite nations, there had never been a major nation till persia.
- If we want we can change up the religion in persia. Maybe making it hindu or even pagen, sure would change things up to have a major pagen nation

The only thing about changing religion is that we need to find a way to explain it historicly, the one thing I liked about this mod is that everything could be explained by something that actually happened.
 
Does anybody know why Nubia became muslim ?

In the text.csv file, I found this :
From the 13th century aggressive warfare from the north diminished the christian population in Nubia. By 1500 there were few christians left
Click to expand...

If that's so, in Aberration aggresive warfare since 13th century would have been directed towards the Kingdom of Jerusalem, not towards Nubia, and the crusaders were IMHO more pressing matters.

So, we could simply remove this event.


For south africa staying pagan, I think it could be modeled by making a trigger such as
Code: 
NOT = { OR = { core = { province = XXX data = -1 } } }
with XXX, YYY, ZZZ designating several provinces (perhaps all provinces owned by the countries we don't want to see converting to sunni).


For Asia, there's a discussion about splitting China, and different religions could be used in different chinese countries.
 
Here's some religious stuff I'd like to see, mixed in with some general suggestions that might belong in another thread:

I also think India should be all Hindu, with maybe a few Hindu provinces extending into Afghanistan. India as a whole could be divided into 2 big powers--the primarily Hindi north could be concerned with reclaiming "greater" Hindustan and some surrounding environs, while the Dravidian south could focus on interactions with formerly Hindu Indonesia...there could be an event sequence with Mataram asking for help from Hindu nations to fight the encroaching Muslim presence of Malacca, Brunei, and the like. Alternatively, the Muslim provinces could stay as they are in India, but Hindu resurgence events could eventually convert them or provide extra missionaries.

These 2 halves of India, if eventually united, would make for a very powerful country. To balance that, there should be another resurgence--namely, Buddhism. People feeling oppressed by caste issues could cause revolts and conversions in certain provinces, until Hinduism eventually reabsorbs Buddhists (as happened historically). There could be some interesting interactions with Southeast Asia as well.

With Islam being crushed in and around India, I think Eastern Africa should stay mostly uninfluenced by Hinduism, as it was historically, I believe. If it is, perhaps Hinduism should compete with Buddhism in this areas.

I think Australia should play a major role in the Asian region. It could be used a proxy battlefield for an Indonesian empire (Muslim normally, or eventually Hindu if India helps Mataram conquer the islands), a Chinese power (assuming one of the Chinese states is colonial), one of the two Indian states (preferably the southern Dravidian one since the Northern Hindi state has expansion opportunities all the way up to Persia) and perhaps an aggressively colonial Japan.

So, the short form:
* make India, and eventually the area up to Persia, Hindu.
* make Indonesia either Muslim (as normal), or with the aid of India and events, a Mataram-controlled Hindu state.
* make part of China, and all of Japan (if it becomes a colonial power) Buddhist.
* Rather than the traditional Hindu/Islam conflict, focus on Buddhist/Hindu conflicts (internally in India and maybe in East Africa) since Islam will already be devastated in Asia.

That was pretty long. :)

EDIT: Oh one more thing--a Mongol state that either became Buddhist (and interacted with North India) or Pagan (and, in a nationalist fervor, tries to reconquer Mongol lands outside of China) would be interesting too.
 
I'd like to add one point to this....Southeast Asia is largely Muslim at the moment, and if we are going to make Persia largely Hindu (I agree with that too, btw), then maybe we could make Southeast Asia the new enclave of the Shi'ite muslims? It would open the possibility of making one of the Chinese successors Shi'ite, which could greatly enhance conflict there since it would let us have another religion in the area.
 
CaptainBOB said:
I'd like to add one point to this....Southeast Asia is largely Muslim at the moment, and if we are going to make Persia largely Hindu (I agree with that too, btw), then maybe we could make Southeast Asia the new enclave of the Shi'ite muslims? It would open the possibility of making one of the Chinese successors Shi'ite, which could greatly enhance conflict there since it would let us have another religion in the area.
Click to expand...

Oops, I was a bit unclear in my post. I meant everything up to but NOT including Persia would be Hindu...similar to the early historical situation, I believe. However, now that I think of it, it sounds interesting. Shi'ite Islam will have trouble surviving in a historically plausible way--maybe a mass migration north would work. Your SE Asia idea sounds interesting, but the only problem is that Buddhism will be crushed (unless it's more prevalent in China due to one of the Chinese states or a revitalized Mongol horde).
 
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Shiites could stay in Persia and spread north from there. Uzbeks and khazaks might have adopted shiite ways.

Maybe the muslim sultanates in India were heavily raided by mongols (as they did not go to Baghdad) and any sort of power sultanates held was shattered. Then as mongols did not want to stay around, but instead left to settle some succession issues, the hindus took over ruling in the power vacuum. This would create very fragmented India at first, but with room for some rising stars that would want to unite first their cultural area (maybe have one rising star for each culture in India) and then unite whole India into a Hindustan or something.

Why hindu would have transformed into actively missionarising religion though? Or why would have ethiopians, who have been orthodox from the days of Roman Empire turned hindu?

I think more interesting way to deal with pagan converting events would to have them check some key neighbouring provinces and convert to that religion. So that for example Hurons will not convert into protestantism when completely surrounded by catholic irish. Maybe have few missionary events, which would need some investment from the colonial power and the pagan nation would possibly convert and become very closely aligned with the colonial power.

Indochina and Indonesia could be a place of religious conflict, with a setup that somewhat looks like vanilla setup, but having them actively at each others throats. Maybe buffing hindus up a bit and moving some buddhists into Indonesia and some muslims into Indochina. Then have each of them trying to unify their geographical area (either Indochina or Indonesia) under their own banner with no mercy for those "Vile Infidels". I think that muslims were in Indochina / Indonesia area before mongols already, so removing them from there would need some explanation. Besides, why remove them, if it will remove a cause for conflict and make things more quiet?
 
I had an idea of splitting up India quite equally between Muslims, Hinduists and Buddhists, keeping the cultures quite as it is and make dravidian + maharati Hindu, Bengali + Burmanese Buddhist and Hindi + Gujarati + Sikh Muslim, they could be either Sunni or Shiite, doesn't matter... in return for a "weaker" Hindu position than proposed I suggest making all sunnis in Indonesia Hindu instead, perhaps also expand Hinduism some in the Mekong Delta. India would eventually be split up in three nations more or less.
But it seems that all favor a strong Hinduist India, so I don't expect my idea to be adopted really.

Other than that, I support Shiite muslim hordes instead of Sunni ones.
 
Dont turn Persia into Hindu or Orthadox, leave it as Sunni in my opinion.The shia can arise in Afghanistan or Gujarat, thats my opinion.Persia was normaly sunni until Savavid takeover.

EDIT: My advice : I really think all of you should read about shia theology a bit, being a sunni and all, I may sound a bit ruff on them :D, but to be honest I find it very silly how the hordes should be shia or any other nation being shia,even Oman was sunni.If ppl are ackin for Shia, then u can make certain events for Oman and persia to turn shia or remain sunni, othar than that, shiitism isnt appealing, and didnt gain many followers in a true sense.Take it from me, they had to Force ppl to accept it.Leave everything sunni in my opinion.
 
No, don't make Persia Sunni!!! That is the most unbalancing thing possible lol. It needs to be a non-sunni religion, and I imagine it is gonna be left Shi'ite.

Caliph...please don't bring personal convictions into this. I'm sure if we found a Shi'ite to come in to this forum he'd say the same thing about Sunni's. We are only spreading Shi'ites to give most religions a more even spread, not just to piss you off lol.
 
lol :D I know, but I heard talk of turning Persia into hindu or orthadox, so I thought we should might as well turn them to sunni :D
 
What about taking advantage of the fact that Sunni and Shiite countries can be force-converted (but not convert by choice) and use Shiite to represent pre-Islam remnant religions around the fringe of the Muslim-Eastern boundary area, through Afghanistan and the like? Thus, Sunni countries could forceconvert those areas *to* Sunni....
 
Sunni and shiite have (afaik) hardcoded permanent CBs on each other. Also the sunni / shiite conflict began in around 800 AD or so, so removing shiites completely would need an explanation where did shiites go.
 
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