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unmerged(15604)

unmerged(15604)

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Mar 16, 2003
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Howdy, y'all! This is my first post to a paradox forum.

First, what Christian sects will be shown? I assume at least Catholic and Orthodox- anyone else? Some sort of "heretic"/Protestant, perhaps? Nesorians and Monophysites in the Mideast? Maronites as a separate religion?

What other religions can we expect? At least Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims, I'm hoping for Suffi as a separate group. The Mongols could be shown as "pagan"m but maybe something more descriptive- Shamanist?

I hope Judaism shows up as a separate religion, I think it is disappointing it doesn't show up in the EUs. Trying to build up a Jewish "Judea" in the Levant as an ally could be a very cool goal.

The Kaganate of Khazaria had been Jewish in at least the upper classes, so maybe some Khazar provinces could be called Jewish? Also, the Falasha Kingdom in Abyssinia, but that might bot be on the map.

Just some ideas to make sure we're not stuck with just a boring four way power struggle of two kindsa muslim and two kindsa christian.

Any other ideas?

Ooh- Norse Odin-Thor-Freia type Scandinavians? At least in the hinterlands of say, northern Norway.

And Lapps, I gues, will be called pagan.
 
Hello! Glad you made your first post here! :)

A lot of this has been covered in other threads, so if you do a quick search (using the button in the upper right there) for "Religion" threads here in the CK forum, you will get all sorts of information...

One thing I can answer right away is that the Khazar Khanate had disintegrated by 1066 and the area had been overrun by other Turkish tribes, so they won't appear as a nation in the game...

EDIT:
In fact, there is a thread on Judaism in CK right below this one...
 
Welcome,

There has been a fair bit of discussion regarding the wish to have heretics included in the game.

But please don't go into detail as to what may or may not be heretical. I would hate to start that thread again;)
 
Everyone who is diffrent from you is a Pagan...
 
Originally posted by Celt
Or not :D . I like that whole listening to black metal thing, though.

Seriously, though, I hope that there are several kinds of "pagans" in the game.
Click to expand...

There are three different kind of pagans indeed.

Surely faith of pre-islamic Seljuk nomads, of Lithuanians and of Lapps are way too different to be covered by single icon :)

Boreal_s
Duke in Red
 
Depending on what defenition you take...anyone non-chritian is a pagan..

n.
One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
One who has no religion.
A non-Christian.
A hedonist.
A Neo-Pagan.

adj.
Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.
Professing no religion; heathen.
Neo-Pagan.
 
How widespread were pagan faiths in Europe by 1066?
 
In Sweden they were in majority.;)
 
Actually, I've done a bit of research into "pagan" religions, and just about every "tribe" (whether American, Asian, European, etc.) actually developed its own religion. The widely recognized ones (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.) are just the ones that caught on outside of the original tribe.

What I'm getting at, though, is that hypothetical Swedish, Irish, Russian, Arabian, Mongol, etc. pagans would differ from tribe to tribe as much as the established religions do from one another. Realistically, this may not be possible to do in-game, but each of these groups (that did actually have significant pagan populations, such as I am sure northern Sweden did, and other areas did as well, I'm sure - I remember reading something about conversions taking place in Norway and Iceland in this time period in an account of the Viking explorations in the North Atlantic) should have its own seperate 'pagan' religion slot and icon.
 
==============================================
Actually, I've done a bit of research into "pagan" religions, and just about every "tribe" (whether American, Asian, European, etc.) actually developed its own religion. The widely recognized ones (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.) are just the ones that caught on outside of the original tribe.
==============================================

Judaism started with one tribe, but both Christianity and Islam, along with many less popular, are based on it.

It has been argued that Hinduism has the same position in the East, being the root of Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, and others.

Then there's the scientologists, who are -erm- shall we say, fairly unique. To each his own, I suppose.

P.S. Sorry about the weird quote, how am I really supposed to do it?
 
Well, yes, Christianity came from Judaism, and an argument could be made for Islam (I'm actually not so sure it's that closely related)... but my point was that every "tribe" (or "culture" if you will) originally had its own religion. The Franks, Celts, Normans, Swedes, etc. each had their own religions before they were "Christian". By the time frame of CK, yes, many of those had been lost, replaced by what we know as the "major" religions. But not all of them.

But in terms of the areas that were still "pagan", one "pagan" was NOT the same as another, and should not be so represented in the game. In my opinion this was one of the biggest flaws in the religion system in EU and EU2 - that the pagans in Africa and Central Asia and America, etcetera, were all lumped together.
 
Islam is closer to Judaism than Christianity in many ways.

But, yes, point taken. There should not be a united pagan religion, or we will get som bizarre side effects:

Lapps welcome Mongol liberators with open arms!

Oppression of Tartars by Muscovy really pisses off backwater Ireland!

Etc.
 
I doubt that each pagan religion was unique, there are too many parallels between Greek and Viking religions for it to be co-incidental. I know that "Asatro" replaced an earlier religion based on the Mother Goddess so why did this happen? External influence. I also suspect thing like the worship of the Horned God was big over a large part of Europe. Its not like trade, travel and exchanges of ideas started with Christianity.
Point being is that there are variations of paganism, there were also similarities, so consolidating them into groups per se is not historical inaccurate. Of course the groups themselves can be.
 
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