[Request:] "City Center" Effect

[Mithkabob]

The mod has been tested some what and appears to be working mostly as intended.

Steam workshop link

It could really use some good asset packs to go with it that add in some height variety to the offices, and the commercial, and some larger low wealth high density residential buildings. (And probably some smaller high wealth high density residential?)

 

[Lakenstaken]

The mod has been tested some what and appears to be working mostly as intended.

Steam workshop link

It could really use some good asset packs to go with it that add in some height variety to the offices, and the commercial, and some larger low wealth high density residential buildings. (And probably some smaller high wealth high density residential?)

From the steam description: "The ban hi rises policy will ban buildings above a certain height."

Doesn't the ban high rises policy already ban buildings over a certain height?

Anyway, seems like a useful mod, I'll test it out.

 

[Decrendo]

Doesn't the ban high rises policy already ban buildings over a certain height?

As far as I can tell, that policy only prevents buildings from reaching level 3, or 5 for residential.

 

[CalPolyFan]

The mod has been tested some what and appears to be working mostly as intended.

Steam workshop link

It could really use some good asset packs to go with it that add in some height variety to the offices, and the commercial, and some larger low wealth high density residential buildings. (And probably some smaller high wealth high density residential?)

Wow! Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but will give it a shot. Thanks for that.

 

[Werewindlefr]

The mod has been tested some what and appears to be working mostly as intended.

Steam workshop link

It could really use some good asset packs to go with it that add in some height variety to the offices, and the commercial, and some larger low wealth high density residential buildings. (And probably some smaller high wealth high density residential?)

Is this compatible with proper hardness ? The combination might be quite awesome.

Edit : it's probably not, you both rewrite the zonable BuildingAIs.

 

[Xendance]

I think this would be nice.
It makes sense if there are no restrictions on the height, that building constructors would always try to maximize the amount of profit they can get from a lot. In reality this means that they try to build as high buildings as it makes sense depending on the land value. Simcity 4 did this and it did it well imo.

 

[WaytoomanyUIDs]

Even a city like Paris, which has a height limitation throughout its core, has a CBD that formed naturally just beyond the fringe of the height-limited area:

I like your idea and think it would make a good addition to the game, but from my understanding La Défense was actually largely planned, although I believe the skyscrapers grew beyond the original planned area.

 

[rlrh1996]

IMO the problem is not the lack of this "so-called" city center effect, but rather the lack of height variety in the game's skyscrapers.

In Singapore where I live, all the buildings are almost the same height.
In this photo, you can see public housing estates (like "commie blocks") built in the 80s at the front, the newly built public housing complex called The Pinnacle with sky bridges connecting the blocks (sort of primitive MegaTowers) in the middle, and the downtown core area at the back:

Yet there is still a distinctive skyline when seen from the other side:

...due to factors such as the CBD being at the edge of a bay, the low-density pre-war godowns on the riverfront (now converted to restaurants & bars), the colonial-era buildings such as the Supreme Court and the Victoria Theatre on the opposite bank, and most importantly the different heights of the skyscrapers, which interesting are mainly due to changing height limit policies over the years.

And the only reason all the commercial buildings are at the same place is because they are only allowed to grow there.
Just for fun, here's city planning in real life - a land use plan for 2030 with different colours for different zones just like in the game (anyone who played Just cause 2 might be familiar with the island names):

So yeah, I think the game's high-rise ban when combined with more buildings of much more different heights should work pretty well.

 

[Elydion]

This is something Simcity 4 did exceedingly well.

Simcity only did this after the CAM was released, before that, simcity 4 was as much a skyscraperfest as virtually any other city builder

 

[baronsabato]

I guess I don't really agree with the OP's premise. Modern cities don't grow organically, the grow as the result of fairly structured planning. Buildings don't just pop out of the ground and grow based on the parameters listed by the OP. Even so, I do think that the main problem with CSL at this moment is that it can be quite difficult to create a proper city center, even with the high rise ban, mainly because most of the high density buildings end up being the same height. I like the ploppable monuments and wonders, but there needs to be taller growable buildings as well, and perhaps even a "skyscraper-friendly" district policy that encourages the growth of really tall skyscrapers beyond just the high-rises that are currently in the game.

I can't wait until modern are able to mod the policies, because I think that will be the true test of how flexible and dynamic a game CSL can be!

 

[CalPolyFan]

I guess I don't really agree with the OP's premise. Modern cities don't grow organically, the grow as the result of fairly structured planning. Buildings don't just pop out of the ground and grow based on the parameters listed by the OP. Even so, I do think that the main problem with CSL at this moment is that it can be quite difficult to create a proper city center, even with the high rise ban, mainly because most of the high density buildings end up being the same height. I like the ploppable monuments and wonders, but there needs to be taller growable buildings as well, and perhaps even a "skyscraper-friendly" district policy that encourages the growth of really tall skyscrapers beyond just the high-rises that are currently in the game.

I can't wait until modern are able to mod the policies, because I think that will be the true test of how flexible and dynamic a game CSL can be!

Yes, the roads are planned, however the growth factors that cause high-rise buildings aren't layed down by the mayor.. There are commercial growth factors that happen as a result of pre-existing infrastructure, density and other factors, which is not being simulated by this game.

Like I have said before, it is completely a-typical to have tall buildings "flat top" all over a map, few real world cities display such tendencies outside of China, and Eastern Europe.

 

[RebelBinary]

Modern cities don't grow organically, the grow as the result of fairly structured planning. Buildings don't just pop out of the ground and grow based on the parameters listed by the OP.

Disagree respectfully. Modern cities do grow organically, although planning does limit density, a builder is going to build based on demand. So a skyscraper isn't going to pop up in the middle of nowhere, it's going to go where there are other dense buildings, because there's a supply of the services a dense surrounding neighbourhood to feed the high demand created by the eventual tenants of this new built skyscraper. Downtown offices like to be next other dense offices because it supplies them more customers, and ppl will fill those big offices because the potential of the surrounding neighbourhood is strong for business. Location, location, location.

I do think OP makes sense from a game point of view, it puts forward rules that would make an organic looking city, which is what good city builder should do.

There are lot of ppl nagging on the easy levelling and the skyscraper fest that is in this game, it's even become a challenge to build poor neighbourhoods and generally every small neighbourhood has to be forced because the simulator will just level them up too easily. If and how the Devs will tackle this issue is totally unknown.

CalPolyFan I totally get what your saying and I'm in the same boat as you! We want natural looking cities with discernible realistic looking cores.

 

[rlrh1996]

Disagree respectfully. Modern cities do grow organically, although planning does limit density, a builder is going to build based on demand. So a skyscraper isn't going to pop up in the middle of nowhere, it's going to go where there are other dense buildings, because there's a supply of the services a dense surrounding neighbourhood to feed the high demand created by the eventual tenants of this new built skyscraper. Downtown offices like to be next other dense offices because it supplies them more customers, and ppl will fill those big offices because the potential of the surrounding neighbourhood is strong for business. Location, location, location.

I do think OP makes sense from a game point of view, it puts forward rules that would make an organic looking city, which is what good city builder should do.

There are lot of ppl nagging on the easy levelling and the skyscraper fest that is in this game, it's even become a challenge to build poor neighbourhoods and generally every small neighbourhood has to be forced because the simulator will just level them up too easily. If and how the Devs will tackle this issue is totally unknown.

CalPolyFan I totally get what your saying and I'm in the same boat as you! We want natural looking cities with discernible realistic looking cores.

I'm curious about city planning in North America. Are residential and commercial, and industrial zones planned out? Or I could, if I wanted to, build an office skyscraper in a residential district?

I'm asking because in my city, the commercial area was zoned over 100 years ago, and subsequently did not expand much even as the population and demand increased, so the initial low-rise commercial buildings slowly bunched together and formed mid-rises, and then the first high-rise offices started appearing, and eventually all the mid-rises became high-rises, and as the demand continued to increase, the land became so expensive that new commercial areas had to be zoned elsewhere to cool it down.

 

[AnUrbanCountryside]

The density of any given area within a city is usually a combination of the factors you guys have been discussing. Density limitations are a tool used by cities to control and manage growth for different reasons. But the overriding factor is that artificial density limitations only exert an effect when there is an existing propensity for said area to exceed those limitations. I.e. in real life you could place a height limit of 100m on all plots within a city with a population of 2,000, but all else being equal that will probably only be a symbolic act as there’s no demand for such heights in the first place. So what would be ideal would be to keep such district control measures as they’re used all the time in city management, but in absence of such controls have plots grow based on factors such as land value, proximity to transport hubs, surrounding density, specific demand, available services, economies of scale, etc.

As mentioned by various posters, cities in different countries respond somewhat differently to these factors due to the influence and control possible by different governments, but still basically work according to the same fundamental principles. I.e. the reason Lujiazui became the skyscraper forest it did is because the government was able to effectively funnel the pent-up demand for foreign investment etc. into the area, removed zoning restrictions, provided tax incentives, built adequate infrastructure, and because that demand existed in the first place.

I cannot wait until the genius modders of our community can create a simulation similar to how real cities operate, at least in these core respects. Let us all be thankful that the foundation of the game is solid and that the ability to mod such core elements of the game are made possible for those who seek to change them!

 

[CalPolyFan]

If you wanted to have the current Cities Skylines growth style which has no city-center effect: you could set the Randomness to a 10, and Skyline Effect to a 0..

If you wanted a super-focused "hyper city" skyline you would set the Randomness to a 1 or 0 and the Skyline Effect to a 10.. Allowing very tight general clustering of taller buildings.
By default, the game would be set to a city center effect of a 5 and randomness of 5.

Of course, in a perfect world, other settings could be toggled, such as "waterfront desirability" - Where taller residential buildings propensity to say hug a coastline, or lakefront property could have an effect value as well, 0 being no change in waterfront desirability 10 being waterfront has a big influence on land value, and even different types of waterfront would have different values: White sand beaches would be more desirable than say swampland coastline for low value residential development.

If a lake for example were incorporated into the city limits, random docks and homes could appear on it, a lake near a larger city with higher land value would of course have more homes surrounding it than a more rural lake. Dirt roads could be procedurally generated to connect to the nearest city road, either following the same angle of current roads, and connecting at the nearest 90 degrees, or similar..

More "procedurally generated" growth should take place inside the city limits, where "off road" level 1 and 2 buildings develop.. lakehouses, Small farmhouses etc.. connected by dirt roads without player input. - this could also be a setting that could be toggled, regarding how much random growth is allowed.

The player would still be able to draw roads outside city limits, but no growth would take place on them

Simply zoning "city limits" around areas should have homes and small businesses procedural generate, and create their own dirt roads.

"Unincorporated areas" (think townships) could also be drawn outside a city limits to allow for more procedurally generated growth to take place in those areas, but not under control of the mayor. This would be a way to "limit/allow" rural growth in other areas of the map. These areas could also be "incorporated" into the city if the mayor wished, pushing the city limits further.

 

[MotownCountry]

i think Detroit has the VERY TIGHTEST city center. but it's prolly the only city with the largest acreage. LOL

 

[boformer]

This is on my TODO list.