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Requesting Panzer Lehr replays

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Trolling4Warlords

Recruit
Dec 23, 2017
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Hi Guys,

Panzer Lehr is my favorite division but it is by far (to me) the hardest to play. I am hoping the community can educate me on how to survive phase A and even B.

Just a history of my gaming with panzer lehr and what I learned.

I want to play Panzer Lehr exclusively in 1vs1 Ranked but I am too afraid to bring them in. I have had a lot of trouble in the beginning using Armored decks (especially Allied armoured) but now after playing panzer lehr in 3vs3 and 10vs10, I have slowly gotten a lot better at hard pushes and assaults into enemy positions.

Panzer Lehr taught me how to use tanks properly because sometimes you only get ONE. So you have to really play them properly. Panzer Lehr is very unforgiving if you lose your Tiger or King Tiger.

After becoming more confident of using tanks, I started using Allied armoured and using what I learned playing panzer lehr, I am now getting a lot of success with allied armoured decks. They don't hit hard and they aren't tough like German heavy tanks but they are no less deadly provided they have ample support. Allied armour is all about support.

After learning how to use the French, 3rd and 4th armour decks affectively (my opinion of effective!). I migrated over to 9th divsion and 116th Windhund, which in my books are much harder to play than Allied armoured. I got success with them and now I am back to panzer lehr, which is to me, unbelievably hard if the enemy plays very aggressive with infantry, mortar and light tanks assaults.

I just don't see panzer lehr surviving against this kind of aggresive armoured combined arms pushes during Phase A and into Phase B.

With that being said.

How do you survive against Allied combined arms armoured pushes during phase A and B?

Do you guys have a replay for panzer Lehr that is 1vs1?



I know Panzer Lehr is all about surviving Phase A and counter push during phase B and phase C but I need some guidance on how you would stop allied armored pushes that uses Stuarts and 1-2 shermans with rifle infantry and mortar support.

Panzer lehr just cannot survive that. If you give ground to conserve manpower, then do you place your troops at the FLOT (Front line of troops) and then play a delaying action, with constant retreats.

Or do you place your troops back (not roll forward to grab territory) and let the enemy roll forward hoping you can buy more time.

Also, how do you delay and buy time?

Thanks!
 
Imo you don't, it's why you never see Lehr 1vs1 replays. Against an opponent of your level with a phase A deck you should loose cause he will make points before you and probably kill your units. These first losses will follow you the rest of the game and force you to run after your points to keep a line with scratch teams.
As you said, Panzer Lehr is a phase C deck and starts to build his assets in early B. Which would probably be fine if like in other decks you would also have cheaper infantry with more availability in the meantime. But you don't, each infantry card just don't get you enough infantry, the inf is strong but costly. The final result is you can't keep a large frontline quite convincingly. It is the main reason why Lehr may shine in teamplay in a very narrow part of a map but is very very difficult to play in 1vs1 on a total area.

In phase A, the AVRE from the Scots or the Cromwells from GA will be a nigthmare to deal with. Your infantry support with sdkfz will turn useless as soon as the enemy have armored cards to target them.
It will later definitey be a struggle in treelines cause you've to keep yours panzers at max range to avoid them to be outmatched by allied armor and you will not be able to do it most of the time due to the shape of terrain. Your own advantage with your panzers will be lost. Each time you have to get 100m closer, you give +1AP to your enemy to ambush you.

You canno't make panzer lehr what is isn't made for, you have only 4 slots in the support tab, 4 in the arty tab, 3 in the air tab, 4 in the aa tab, 4 in the at tab but 10 (the max) in the tank tab and 7 in the recon tab. So you'll have to use tanks even if you don't want to and will be able to bring a lot in phase C only with 150 points, you will not have air superiority and probably not enough AA, you will not be able to bring ammo for your arty and plenty of support vehicles at the same time.
Some would advise you to bring phase A pumas and use phase A späthrupp as infantry but here is the tricky part, the phase A is your weaker phase in points anyway, with 75 per tick. You won't be able to do everything at once.
In B, with 95 points, maybe you would choose to turn one or two slots of Befh Panther into cheaper Panzer IV, but i definitely find the Panzer IV turret too ineffective to be used properly and well keep in mind these are 1000m panzers so you'll be screwed against 1200m allied armor like fireflys, 76mm from the French and 3rd Armored, not to mention the Hellcats from 4rd Armored or the tank destroyers like the M10. Everyone of these tanks can be used in B, sometimes in A.
In a way the game forces you to bring your cards with lower avaibility and better stats to be able to compete (phase B befh panthers and phase B tigers), which leads you once again to have difficulties to just deal with the amount of forces you'll meet. 2 enemy tanks against yours may fix you, panick oyu and find a side shot.

So what you should not do imo is to attack in A. You know soon enough if your opponent is good enough. If he's good enough keep your inf behind your treelines, protected by some sdkfz, pumas, gepard. Let the enemy come at you, shred him if you've the upper hand. Use your panzerwerfer effectively and make units surrender (move it after firing). Use your panzerfausts effectively but don't move your pz.grenadiers in the open if you're not sure of what you'll be facing cause you'll finish shredded with impossibility to replace them.
Delete every at gun you see with your arty, it'll be useful late game.
Use smoke and manually retreat your units to avoid being engaged at 100m range. Pz grenadiers will loose a lot of men to rifles in close range. Use your AT in ambushes but don't loose them firing at max range against armor with no results.
If you've to retreat, delay, let one unit hidden and forbid it to fire to keep your line as long as possible, use a second line of defense to protect this unit if needed. Use the enemy mistakes, people make mistakes when they move from one line to another, one of their armored will turn on the side, another will go into your panzerfauts. So punish the advance, trade effectively if you have to.
Then start make ground in B with your tigers anf finish in C.
Good night and good luck!
Try to keep a -1 and pray!
 
It doesn't help that the divisions activation points are poorly designed. Tanks only come available in B and the cards itself are very sufficient so it makes no sense from a gameplay standpoint to have 10 tank slots if you play anything besides clowngames. A different distribution would certainly help. There was also a suggestion from a particular Eugen member to give the division discounted Tigers which was suprising to me and actually a good idea but nothing ever came into fruition.
 
Fussel said:
There was also a suggestion from a particular Eugen member to give the division discounted Tigers which was suprising to me and actually a good idea but nothing ever came into fruition.
Click to expand...

Cheaper tigers 1 won't help much. Lehr has too low income in B. 95 pts - you need 3 mins for 1 Tiger.
 
Lehr isn't good for 1v1. But i have a soft spot for them, so i pick Lehr in 1v1s time to time. If i think the map is suitable ofc. I don't play Lehr in quick play or ranked.

This is my deck in this game if you wonder

*CAhAl3ECY4QJjRAmJICWgQJiyAl2ECWoQJpxAmTECXQQJoxAmfECZIQJmyAmPECXkQJiBAmBECYYQJhRAllECYIQJfhAmDECZoQJbRAl/ECZkQJnRAl6ECW4QJqh
 

Attachments

  • 2518876358250788116-1694da81-effc-4d84-85ad-0d43764cf5c1.zip
    245,9 KB · Views: 15
Just uploaded a series of 5 replays I did in ranked with Panzer Lehr on the replay site http://sd-replays.net/replay-list.

Never really played them before so it was interesting to get a different experience. The first 20 minutes are bloody stressful and Shermans feel like king tigers in phase A when you have a max AP of 10.

Play seems to require lots of artillery and recon in A, I deployed 2 mortars and the pzwerfer in every game in A alongside 4-6 Spahtruppe. Whilst you do need to be defensive on most fronts and cede ground in forests and towns you can be quite aggressive in areas with treelines against allied decks without much infantry At.

It's certainly possible to play Lehr in 1v1 and with more practice I'd probably do ok with them but it's just so much easier to play any allied deck or 3rd FSJ/17th SS or 9th Pz where you can close games out much faster.
 
I just watched one of your replays against the rangers. Man, if somebody of your skill level barely scrapped a win, there is no real chance for your above average player to really have a good chance to win with Lehr. It's just so bloody intense and stressful. Games with Lehr is always very very stressful in 1vs1. It's also very demorilizing watching your opponent gain so much ground against you. You have to be very mentally focused.

Thanks a bunch for the replays. If you do more, please upload because I learn so much from it, especially watching someone of your skill level
 
Trolling4Warlords said:
I just watched one of your replays against the rangers. Man, if somebody of your skill level barely scrapped a win, there is no real chance for your above average player to really have a good chance to win with Lehr. It's just so bloody intense and stressful. Games with Lehr is always very very stressful in 1vs1. It's also very demorilizing watching your opponent gain so much ground against you. You have to be very mentally focused.

Thanks a bunch for the replays. If you do more, please upload because I learn so much from it, especially watching someone of your skill level
Click to expand...

Yue jin play the tournament watch his replay on youtube. Absolutely fantastic.
 
Trolling4Warlords said:
I just watched one of your replays against the rangers. Man, if somebody of your skill level barely scrapped a win, there is no real chance for your above average player to really have a good chance to win with Lehr. It's just so bloody intense and stressful. Games with Lehr is always very very stressful in 1vs1. It's also very demorilizing watching your opponent gain so much ground against you. You have to be very mentally focused.

Thanks a bunch for the replays. If you do more, please upload because I learn so much from it, especially watching someone of your skill level
Click to expand...

Glad it's useful to you. Don't get too disheartened, I don't think I played particularly well that game and it was the first time I've played lehr in 1v1 and my tactics and deck were evolving. I really didn't have a solid idea of when the momentum shifted and how hard I could push. I do plan on doing a few more as this was actually much more fun than I expected it to be. They'll just be put up on the replay site whenever they happen.

This is the current iteration of my lehr 1v1 deck *CAdAloICXQQJjRAltECZIwJfxAmoECYsgJbhAl+ECZ0gJmyAmfECYcQJmhAmFECYYQJeRAmDECYQQJbBAmBECZMgJfRAl6ECYkQJiBAlzECacQ==
main changes are that I now have 9 spahtruppe, dropped the king tigers for regular tigers and recon and went down to only 1 puma. The card of regular panzer IV's is to allow me to flood the battlefield with 1 a minute at the start of C phase where lehr needs units on the field quickly to recover.
 
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