Since Archduke has said he has lost interest and people like lawkeeper have said they will restart the project, I'm starting this thread so that we can discuss how to carry on.
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tombom said:
I think Europe is set up pritty well, we sould look at the ROTW and maybe get some legite player nations out there.
How about setting up a nation in Persa to counter the Kalp from expanding into there, since right now its far to easy, even for the comp. Also, there were alot of really good ideas in the poll thread about China and Japan, I think we should do some of them.
Quoting myself from another thread :
I propose that anyone puts some ideas here, then we'll discuss about global orientation for RotW, once we see what are the current ideas.
These are some of the ideas that wander under my hair.lawkeeper said:
I propose that anyone puts some ideas here, then we'll discuss about global orientation for RotW, once we see what are the current ideas.
Persia need to be in, or the Timurid Empire need to get reconquest events! The Kaliphate need a enemy in the east.
Muscowy tend to conquer whole North Russia, so I wouldn't mind a stronger Finland, or maybe a strong Suzdal to stop that, I mean a strong Muscowy is not anything new.
Muscowy tend to conquer whole North Russia, so I wouldn't mind a stronger Finland, or maybe a strong Suzdal to stop that, I mean a strong Muscowy is not anything new.
No, no Persia or Timurids... You guys should be avoiding normal vanilla powers like the plague. A resurgent sultanate of Delhi or a true Mongol successor state (Maybe even the Il-Khanate!) would be far more interesting and true to the spirit of Abe.
Very true. We should also be avoiding things to strange, like the Carthago idea (sounds too much like an Alien scenario to me). Also, we should avoid ideas that are too boring and unoriginal.Calanctus said:
First thing we need to do is establish who will actually do all this stuff.
I'd like a Transoxania state by the Caspaian, as the successors of Timur. I'd be happy to code it myself if I was allowed.
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Nice to see things getting back to business. I like the idea of Hinduism spreading south/east to bits of Africa. I'm happy to have my Japan ideas incorporated wholely or partly as things go along. Need to be careful with any Central Asian power, like a Transaxionia, to make sure it doesn't conflict too badly with an expansion of Ukraine down the Siberian corridor. Or some of the Ukraine/China interacytions will need tweeking. Anyway I'm happy to help out if I can with events/ideas etc
I'd say that anybody can code if he wants, but IMHO we need to set our minds on some global settings, such as :tombom said:
- how did the religion expand ? I've proposed hinduism to Africa, in place of islam, and another suggestion went about islam expanding to the north (I suppose to the russian minors). What about confucianism, buddhism, did they stay the way they are or not ?
- what major historical events that happened prior to 1419 went wrong this time ? such as the Byzantine Empire surviving, this has bit consequences to the new setup. For some ideas, I think about the attempted invasion of Nippon by the mongols of Qubilai Khan in 127?, the collapse of the Timurid empire (which IMO should be prevented), the eternal division of China, etc. I don't know enough about the history of Asia for this period, sadly
- changes in tech level : could some parts be more evolved (such as going from chinese to muslim, or exotic to chinese techgroups), or vice versa
So, we need to agree on this general setup before going in for the real editing.
At least, that's my own humble opinion.
lawkeeper said:
What if the Mongols never expanded into the Middle East? It would create a reason for the Kaliphate and intresting new countries such as Khwarzim etc.
lawkeeper said:
Hinduism in Africa would be good, but Islam expanding north seems a bit bleh. We already have a nice setup in russia, but if you think you can turn it into something more intresting, be my guest. A hindu india would probably mean either a) buddhism never took off or b) the buddha ran elsewhere. So buddhism in china would be more likely if b. You could then have confucianism in japan and some conflict.
tombom said:
Actaully, thats why the Kaliphate is still there, the Mongols were stopped (in the mods version of history.) from taking Bagdad, so they were able to hold the middle east somewhat together.
tombom said:
India is Hindu in the game currently and in RL, since Hindu took alot of Buddhism’s ideas. Buddhism is only really in Tibet, Southeast Asia, and to some extent china, since you can kind of say that Confucianism is a branch of Buddhism. (Uses alot of the same ideas)
I really think that we should look at Asia first and especially China, Nippon, and India and try to get a frame work of what to do there first, mainly cause these are the two biggest richest areas that are appealing to players. We really should start there, rather then go running off into Africa, and though I don't know how much we really want to do it, America.
Do we really want to be messing around with religion? I mean the original mod really only changed things from about the 12th century on, and by then most of the major religions were at the boundaries they are at game start by then (only really Islam has much to expand and then only little). If there are any changes in that area, I would like to see a little less Islam in India.
I just think that if we focus our efferts on one area, Asia, like the original focused on Europe, so that the finished product will be much more balanced. If we spread out too thin, it might not end up quite as good.
PS sorry if the post came out a little funny to read, had a lot of ideas and just tried to get them down
Both (middle-)Africa and Indonesia were places where islam came a bit later than north-africa
The way I saw hinduism in Africa is :
- changing Zanj to hindu
- changing the religious random events from vanilla, replacing all sunni-converting events to hindu-converting
And reducing the spread of islam in india/indonesia is too an interesting idea. Replacing perhaps the sunni by either confucianism (expanding from China & Nippor) or buddhism (from the very close south-east Asia) ? Or simply making them pagans ?
I have a problem : only Oman and Persia (maybe, they need to revolt) will be shiite. Caliphate, Mameluks, Golden Horde, Timurids and Granada, which are the major muslim countries, will be sunni. So, what if shiism expanded into some of these ? Unless we consider that the muslim faith is already too weak due to the failure of the Ottomans and the success of the Crusaders ? This is especially true if we limit islam in favor of hinduism in Africa/India (which I'm very in favor of).
Apart from that, do we change another thing for religion ?
I agree that we should mostly change history starting in the 12th century.
The way I saw hinduism in Africa is :
- changing Zanj to hindu
- changing the religious random events from vanilla, replacing all sunni-converting events to hindu-converting
And reducing the spread of islam in india/indonesia is too an interesting idea. Replacing perhaps the sunni by either confucianism (expanding from China & Nippor) or buddhism (from the very close south-east Asia) ? Or simply making them pagans ?
I have a problem : only Oman and Persia (maybe, they need to revolt) will be shiite. Caliphate, Mameluks, Golden Horde, Timurids and Granada, which are the major muslim countries, will be sunni. So, what if shiism expanded into some of these ? Unless we consider that the muslim faith is already too weak due to the failure of the Ottomans and the success of the Crusaders ? This is especially true if we limit islam in favor of hinduism in Africa/India (which I'm very in favor of).
Apart from that, do we change another thing for religion ?
I agree that we should mostly change history starting in the 12th century.
lawkeeper said:
1)I think shey should be made buddhist.
2)Croatia wins the battle of Gvozd in 1097,Petar Svačić doesn't die in the battle and Croatia goes on to become a World Superpower in the following century's.
lawkeeper said:Muscowy ?
Yeah, Muscowy. They allways tend to conquer all northern Russia in Abe, without help from events.
Moscovy doesn't exist in the most recent Aberration patch.
Anyways, I've been playing Aberration for a while and I'd like to offer my services for coding events and other minor items. I have extensive experience coding with events and can pretty much do whatever you guys want, but I may be a little bit slow since I can only really put time in on the weekends for the next few weeks.
Furthermore, with Archduke quitting the mod I strongly suggest you get a leadership structure organized, or we will have serious issues making everything work, with people disagreeing on what should be done and no higher authority to refer to. Of course, current mod vets should be consulted on this, since I see that at least a few are still actively working on Aberration. If Archduke does finally officially step down, I propose lawkeeper as the obvious leader for the mod, since he has massive experience and is an excellent creative mind as well.
Anyways, I've been playing Aberration for a while and I'd like to offer my services for coding events and other minor items. I have extensive experience coding with events and can pretty much do whatever you guys want, but I may be a little bit slow since I can only really put time in on the weekends for the next few weeks.
Furthermore, with Archduke quitting the mod I strongly suggest you get a leadership structure organized, or we will have serious issues making everything work, with people disagreeing on what should be done and no higher authority to refer to. Of course, current mod vets should be consulted on this, since I see that at least a few are still actively working on Aberration. If Archduke does finally officially step down, I propose lawkeeper as the obvious leader for the mod, since he has massive experience and is an excellent creative mind as well.
CaptainBOB said:
Agreed. As long as he doesn't go crazy, I'd say lawkeeper should be leader. Otherwise we'll probably never get anywhere.
I dont like the idea of a weak "islam" in Africa or Asia, keep it as it is, this is silly.Shiitism is a very limited sect, keep it as it is.You have already weakened Islam, let it grow stronger, Grenada isnt enough in my opinion, the Caliphate expands well, but we need more strength in India and perhaps a push in China.
Islam will already expand into America, thanks to Granada, and I have the impression that Golden Horde will survive more often than in vanilla. And I propose that Oman (or a neighbouring replacement muslim country) have the possibility to turn colonial (more than in vanilla). This would balance the loss of 'coded' influence of Islam in India/Africa/Indonesia.Calipah said:
Thanks for thrusting me, tombom and CaptainBOB. I'll accept, if nobody opposes. But I hope it's clear I'm not the supreme reference, nor a dictator (that is, I'll follow the majority on all issues, and my role of leader should be limited to organization, as IMHO consensus is better than votes).tombom said:
BTW, craziness is my deep nature... :rofl:
lawkeeper said:
You really want to look at a religion that lost alot, how about Catholicism. It lost its 3 top super powers, Spain, Austria and a united France. In one game I actually saw all of Europe except Burgundy, Italy and the Order go protestant. Talk about a lot of blue on the religon map.
Also, Egypt, if it ends up getting reunited, it can go colonial. It has to get reunited, and it just ends up going on a little later then some other countries, but it is in a better location to get into Africa.
lawkeeper said:Thanks for thrusting me, tombom and CaptainBOB. I'll accept, if nobody opposes. But I hope it's clear I'm not the supreme reference, nor a dictator (that is, I'll follow the majority on all issues, and my role of leader should be limited to organization, as IMHO consensus is better than votes).
BTW, craziness is my deep nature... :rofl:
::Bows before new glorious leader::
I disagree. Islam is very strong in this mod. Grenada almost always becomes a major colonial player, and the Kaliphate is consistently the second strongest (or strongest, if I'm playing them) nation in the world.Calipah said:
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That said... My old idea for China was to split it up into two spheres of influence: an old Jin Empire successor state, backwards and fragile, sprawling across the north, and a large Chinese-ruled state to the south, wracked by economic weakness, rebellion, and the incompetent remnants of the Sung dynasty. On the fringes would be several smaller states that could possibly grow to power: a neo-Confucianist state, narrowminded but rich and militarily strong, led by the heirs of Zhu Yuanzhang; a Buddhist state, more innovative but a little smaller and poorer, led by an ancient family of nobles from Southwest China; a merchant state kind of like the Hansa, perhaps turning into a republic at some point; and some kind of Mongol state in the west, also fragile and backward, and sprawling across the steppe and Tibet.