Returning from War with Historical Leaders

[unmerged(1064)]

This may be old news to some, but I just discovered this.

As Austria, I made peace with Turkey. I took two provinces, Serbia and Kosovo, which are not (yet ) connected to the homeland.

In removing my armies from Turkey I discovered that my Historical Leaders could cross my ally's provinces (Hungary), but that the rest of my armies could not.

It is good to know that your best leaders can get home in this way, if needed. It is also good to know that your leaderless armies can get stranded if peace is made.

My Historical Leader could bring any number of troups with him, but once back inside Austrian territory he could not, of course, go back and get some more.

 

[BiB]

I think u just got lucky. Plenty of historical leaders get stuck while some "leaderless" armies luck out. Just praise ur self lucky in this fluke

 

[unmerged(3748)]

Wish i had some more luck with my historical leaders

they always tend to pop up in the province where i need them least. preferably if this province is very far away from my homeland and when the only searoute isnt discovered yet

 

[unmerged(1064)]

The real story

The ability of the Historical leaders to return after war was just a consequence of something else. It just APPEARED (to me) like they were treated differently.

Here is the real story:
1) After peace breaks out, all your armies outside of your own provinces are given white flags, and are allowed to go home.

2) You can merge or reorganize your returning armies without penalty.

3) But if you create a NEW army out of a returning 'white flag' army, then this new army doesn't have its white flag anymore. It can still go to your home provinces, but it can no longer cross any boarders in order get there. (So this army could be stranded in enemy territory.)

This is what got me in trouble. When returning from war, I would merge all my armies in a province, then sort out infantry, cavalry, and artillery, and finally send them home at their own full speed in order to minimize attrition. (especially helpful for cavalry) But when I was done with this merging and creating, only one army would have a white flag.

Since a historical leader usually (always?) keeps its same army name after a merge, the historical leader would always end up with the white flag. -- So I thought they had some special ability.

But really, you just need to be careful to not to lose your white flags until you are truly done with them.

BTW: I didn't test 'split army'. Split might take one 'white flag' army and create two. Does anyone know if this is the case?

 

[State Machine]

Re: The real story

Originally posted by Skyjack
3) But if you create a NEW army out of a returning 'white flag' army, then this new army doesn't have its white flag anymore. It can still go to your home provinces, but it can no longer cross any boarders in order get there. (So this army could be stranded in enemy territory.)

I haven't played (hands on) for a while. My memory is that once you got the "white flag", you could only cross borders to your own or a vassel's territory. Perhaps, I've done something like reorganizing armies when peace was declared, and that was my problem. But still, I'm inclined to the former - you can only cross borders to your territories (or a vassel's) once peace is declared. Of course, this doesn't address your original assertion about historical leaders.

 

[unmerged(1064)]

Re: Re: The real story

Originally posted by State Machine

I haven't played (hands on) for a while. My memory is that once you got the "white flag", you could only cross borders to your own or a vassel's territory. Perhaps, I've done something like reorganizing armies when peace was declared, and that was my problem. But still, I'm inclined to the former - you can only cross borders to your territories (or a vassel's) once peace is declared. Of course, this doesn't address your original assertion about historical leaders.

With armies with a white flag can definitely cross boarders. I had to cross Hungarian teritory to return from a Turkish war after Hungary concluded an early peace. And this was before I had vasselized Hungary.

This ability to cross boarders is limited, at least to beligerants. I couldn't cross English territory returning from a war with France.

I think the goal of the white flags is to allow you to go fight far away for your allies, knowing that you will be able to return after the peace. I don't know if it works in all cases or not. (AI armies seem to get stranded a lot, so maybe problems can arise if there have been any separate peace's declared before your peace.) But it seems to work in general.

 

[Agelastus]

Re: Re: Re: The real story

Originally posted by Skyjack
I think the goal of the white flags is to allow you to go fight far away for your allies, knowing that you will be able to return after the peace. I don't know if it works in all cases or not. (AI armies seem to get stranded a lot, so maybe problems can arise if there have been any separate peace's declared before your peace.) But it seems to work in general.

Problems can arise. I've occasionally got stuck myself. Which is why I rarely send armies marching across Europe to an ally's aid these days unless I really, really have too!

 

[BiB]

Or stick to coastal provinces.

 

[unmerged(5190)]

frage

playing spain at war w/ france. send el gran capitan to defend french comte. after peace he wont return to iberian peninsula. did i do something wrong or is there a way to get him back?

 

[BiB]

Nope, that's the shitty things with standalone provinces like that. U are in Spanish territory and u can't just walk to France because u want to.

Just declare war on France and move him

 

[unmerged(1064)]

nope, it is not reliable

White flags don't seem to be a reliable to get to where you want to go. I carefully moved an army from Franch Comte to Heleveta before ending a war with France and Heleveta, so it wouldn't be stranded in Franch Comte. But then, after the peace, I couldn't cross the Heleveta-French boarder to get back to Spain. I had to go right back to Franch Comte.

I had made several separate peaces before this so that might have messed it it up. Or the white flags might be limited in a different way. Perhaps you can cross (old) Enemy to (current) Allied boarders, but not Enemy to Enemy boarders.

Any chance Patric would drop in to give us (ok, just me ) a hint? Or does someone remember the BG rules?

 

[Agelastus]

Re: nope, it is not reliable

Originally posted by Skyjack
White flags don't seem to be a reliable to get to where you want to go. I carefully moved an army from Franch Comte to Heleveta before ending a war with France and Heleveta, so it wouldn't be stranded in Franch Comte. But then, after the peace, I couldn't cross the Heleveta-French boarder to get back to Spain. I had to go right back to Franch Comte.

You were standing right next to Franche-Comte, one of your own provinces-to walk back to Spain you would have needed to be in France......the game won't let you cheat like that.......fortunately.

 

[unmerged(1064)]

Maybe the game models Real Life! (doh!)

Originally posted by Agelastus


You were standing right next to Franche-Comte, one of your own provinces-to walk back to Spain you would have needed to be in France......the game won't let you cheat like that.......fortunately.

There is not a path checker for white flags. In the original situation, when I started this post, I was in Turkey, next to one of my newly annexed provinces, but was allowed to go into Hungary, and finally into Austria proper -- provided my army kept its white flag.

Looking at it from a real life, cheating, point of view might make the most sense. Crossing boarders is the tricky part in real life too. France wouldn't consider it their problem if my army were in Helvetia, even though Helvtia was France's ally. I would only expect France to let me cross the Hevetia-French boarder if France had been MY ally against Helvetia.

I think all of my in-game experiences fit that rule. A white flag will let you go from an (old) enemies territory, to an ally's territory. Probably, you can also go from one ally's territory to another too. And probably, if the alliance ends, this ability will end too.

What I should have done in the Franche-Compte situation, was to delay making peace until my Franche-Compte force was in FRENCH territory. Then I could have gone to any of my home provinces without crossing any (old) enemy-enemy boarders.

Being aware of the limits of white flags, while fighting a war far afield would make fighting far away relatively safe. But it would be hard to pay attention to everything. A separate peace could still leave you still fighting with no where to run, and an unfortunate exchange of provinces could leave you stranded.

Thanks for the real world-common sense comment, Agelastus. I should have approached the question from that side in the first place. I think I got distracted by the hope that historical leaders had some special abilites. (Hopefully EU2 will allow one man (a historical leader) to cross boarders somehow, after the wars are over.

 

[Agelastus]

Re: Maybe the game models Real Life! (doh!)

Originally posted by Skyjack
Being aware of the limits of white flags, while fighting a war far afield would make fighting far away relatively safe. But it would be hard to pay attention to everything. A separate peace could still leave you still fighting with no where to run, and an unfortunate exchange of provinces could leave you stranded.

Thanks for the real world-common sense comment, Agelastus. I should have approached the question from that side in the first place. I think I got distracted by the hope that historical leaders had some special abilites. (Hopefully EU2 will allow one man (a historical leader) to cross boarders somehow, after the wars are over.

Very hard to pay attention to everything! As I said, unless the situation of an ally is desperate I don't send my armies kiting across Europe, risking their getting caught short upon peace.

I'm glad my comment was able to help you with a rationalisation!