Reviving the Spartan culture

[apollo1989vieten]

well, i dont get that obsession with sparta. other than famous last stand, what else they did ? yes, i know that famous monty pythos scene from life of brian.
there were more sucesfull greek city states than sparta.

Their propaganda made them out to be stronger than they actually were, and further mythologizing them by later people makes them out to be something close to demigod tier. While most city states had non professional citizen levies, the fact that Sparta's land was worked by the slave/serf Helot class means that its citizens could devote their energy to other pursuits. After Xerxes gave up on trying to conquer the Greek city-states, Sparta was in a major rivalry with Athens, one that Persia was eager to finance. After the Peloponnesian wars, Sparta was the leader of the Greek world until Thebes defeated them in battle in 371 BC by using a then novel idea of concentrating most of the hoplites onto the left wing. Eventually, Sparta became like a tourist destination during the Roman period.

 

[czertik]

There should be a tradition or religious tenet that make all 7 year olds of the martial sex (standard only boys), need to spend a year in the wilderness.
High likelihood of dying but if they survive they gain a powerful trait that boosts prowess and health, also a chance to get shrewd.

well, do you know that if that was true in history, you will be effectively killing large pool of your manpower, cripling your military strenght, and mandatory polygamy to impregnate all these females lacking husbands to ensure survival of civilization.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

well, i dont get that obsession with sparta. other than famous last stand, what else they did ? yes, i know that famous monty pythos scene from life of brian.
there were more sucesfull greek city states than sparta.

Because it was the most powerful one prior to the rise of athens, often hegemon, and a leader of many leagues

 

[Ramidel]

It's funny how they're idolized today, for things that were supposed to be negative Athenian propaganda.

No, those things were not negative propaganda - at least not in the eyes of the people writing about them.

Plato, for example, was a notorious Laconophile. A lot of the writings on how badass the Spartans were came from Athenians who thought that Athens could use a good old-fashioned dose of hardcore militarism.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

well, do you know that if that was true in history, you will be effectively killing large pool of your manpower, cripling your military strenght, and mandatory polygamy to impregnate all these females lacking husbands to ensure survival of civilization.

That's what the massive slave class was for.

 

[czertik]

That's what the massive slave class was for.

they did have slaves to keep economy running, not to impregnate rulling class females.

 

[Koppel235]

well, i dont get that obsession with sparta. other than famous last stand, what else they did ? yes, i know that famous monty pythos scene from life of brian.
there were more sucesfull greek city states than sparta.

Except Sparta was the winner of the Peloponessian War,created a large Hegemony,was the uncontested force on land among others.

 

[Koppel235]

That's what the massive slave class was for.

The Helots were serfs,not slaves.Also it wasnt anymore massive than Athens.And helotry as an institution wasnt unique in the ancient Greek world,the Thessalians had a similar class called penestae.

 

[Koppel235]

No, those things were not negative propaganda - at least not in the eyes of the people writing about them.

Plato, for example, was a notorious Laconophile. A lot of the writings on how badass the Spartans were came from Athenians who thought that Athens could use a good old-fashioned dose of hardcore militarism.

Except Plato didnt write much about Sparta.Maybe you confuse him with Xenophon who did.Also its ironic considering the Athenian behavior towards their own allies,who were exploited like they were imperial subjects.

 

[Koppel235]

Full disclosure, I have not seen the movie 300. But I have heard it tried make the Spartans more badass than they already were. The propaganda of their military strength was a great deterrent for Sparta. Since their citizen pool was very limited,

That population decline happened after the catastrophic 464 earthquake,before that they probably could field up to 5000 Citizen Spartan hoplites and add 5000 perioikoi.This is very well detailed by Figueroa at his 2017 work.

 

[Koppel235]

That's what the massive slave class was for.

No idea where you pulled that from,but what you describe was forbidden.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

they did have slaves to keep economy running, not to impregnate rulling class females.

Any offspring of helots and citizens were not eligible to be citizens.