-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Not sure, I remember one of the Custodians mentioning it at some point.
"- 25 CE. Lampsacus. Artabanus II is fleeing the army of Alexandros Augustus after having lost at the Battle of Argithea. On his way across Anatolia, he attacks and defeats a coalition of Roman soldiers from Pergamon and Galatia. The kings of both the client states are executed, and the remaining 10,000 soldiers are given a choice by the harsh Parthian warlord; face the same fate as their kings - crucifixion - or join the Parthian army as auxilliaries to fight on the far reaches of the empire. The soldiers unanimously choose the latter, and several thousand Roman captives are marched across the desolate landscape - to Talaz" - Futuregary
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...u-All-Probably-Might-Not-Have-Forgotten-About
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...u-All-Probably-Might-Not-Have-Forgotten-About
Across desolate landscape, maybe, but Talas was a medium-sized Silk Road city at the margins of the dangerous but exciting limes between the Southern Sedentary world (irrigation water from the Tian Shan) and the Northern steppes. That would have been, indeed, a very good place to settle an auxiliary legion from the Parthians' point of view; and to rebuild a Graeco-Roman colony from the Romans' point of view.
Which reminds me; Taraz/Talas itself is not Roman and Hellenic but Sogdian and Buddhasektran, should I change it into the culture of it's holder?
To spice things up do they need to be Hellenic religion, I know it would make sense but it might be interesting if they picked up one of the later religions such as Jupiter, Sol-Imperial or Mani-Sol via the trade routes or a local religion such as indo-Hellenic or indo-Hellenic Buddhist or such
Hum... all things considered I would keep the population Sogdian (no massive change of population or acculturation) but give them one of these later Roman religions (Sogdians after all were very flexible in terms of religion). Mani-Sol makes quite some sense as a local mix which could appear in this context, but a Mithraicist cult could also be considered due to the Romans being a legion.
I was just suggesting it because the ruler of Taraz is Roman and Hellenic. Making them Mithraic is an interesting idea though.
Wasn't the Mithra cult introduced to Rome well after this legion got relocated though since it isn't until Commodus that Mithraism is pushed on the legions. Of course they could always pick it up later on which if that's the case could lead to an interesting potential religion for Central Asia if a central Asian syncretic mix of it were to be made especially for them.
Some kind of Mithra-Buddha perhaps ?, after all there is already the mixing or odd bed fellows Christianity and Mithraism for Mithra-Christ. Perhaps achieving Nirvana could be twisted to suit a high militarized path fighting to achieve enlighten, rather then meditation peak physical fitness and mental discipline are required with Roman concepts of virtus and dominus thrown into the mix or something.
Not really my strong point so I'm piss poor at visualising it.
Some kind of Mithra-Buddha perhaps ?, after all there is already the mixing or odd bed fellows Christianity and Mithraism for Mithra-Christ. Perhaps achieving Nirvana could be twisted to suit a high militarized path fighting to achieve enlighten, rather then meditation peak physical fitness and mental discipline are required with Roman concepts of virtus and dominus thrown into the mix or something.
Not really my strong point so I'm piss poor at visualising it.
Imperial Cult seems like a nice idea. Roman legionaires teaching their neighbours about their pantheon and Beloved Emperor. The cult survived and there is Augustus's statue in every city and a shrine in every house - a relic of old times. And their ruler with ambition to return and reunite the Empire? Sounds like an introduction to a fine scenario.
The main reason that I had them as Graeco-Roman was because the other major Roman religions (Mithraicism and the Solar cult, as well as Christianity) had not taken hold in the empire by that time. I don't remember writing that line, but I do remember that that was roughly the time when I anticipated the legion's defeat and consequent migration. As far as local populace, I doubt that all 10,000 legionaries would have survived the trek, and those that made it there would probably be vastly outnumbered, preserved only by their unity with each other and willingness to mingle with the local populace. I would not think they would become so numerous as to be the majority culture. So the rulers, yes, Roman, but not the public. As for the religion, unless someone can come up with a viable alternative that was in existence at the time of these events, I think Graeco-Roman is a good fit.
The Imperial Cult is an idea, but its traction was never huge, and the distance between the soldiers and their emperor (as well as any likeness of their emperor) would weaken the religious bond over the passing of several generations. The Graeco-Roman faith is more rooted in Roman culture and would likely not be lost as easily over time.
The Imperial Cult is an idea, but its traction was never huge, and the distance between the soldiers and their emperor (as well as any likeness of their emperor) would weaken the religious bond over the passing of several generations. The Graeco-Roman faith is more rooted in Roman culture and would likely not be lost as easily over time.
The Mithra-Mazda religion or whatever could still come about with it's differences to the Hellenistic Mithraism been due to the religious environment and location etc a kind of paralel/convergent evolution itthat makes then somewhat similar but distinct.
Mithraism (and all religions in the Mithraic group) are of Roman civilization, however, and any religion that belongs in that group would have be a) a splinter religion related to the original Mithraic sect and b) of the same Roman civilization. Usually a religion's success can determine it's grouping. Christianity, for example, could be considered in the same religious group as Judaism and Islam since they both come from an Abrahamic background, and if Christianity and Islam were both still tiny faiths, there would be no problem lumping them in the same group. Since all three are rather sizable, independent, and unique due to having become major world religions, we must separate them into their respective groups. Mithraism is one of these major world religions in the mod (at least, major in the West), and since this Mithraic-Zoroastrian fusion is a) not related to the original Mithraic sect and b) not of the same Roman civilization as the others, it would make no sense to put it in the same group as them.
It sounds like what you're suggesting is an entirely new Mithraic faith from a Persian civilization rather than a Roman one. While this idea is indeed interesting and would make for a good parallel contrast to the Roman equivalent, I can't help but feel that pulling an entirely new faith out of a civilization as impacting in the timeline as Persia with absolutely no references would be leaning on the side of heresy from our standpoint. What do the others think?
It sounds like what you're suggesting is an entirely new Mithraic faith from a Persian civilization rather than a Roman one. While this idea is indeed interesting and would make for a good parallel contrast to the Roman equivalent, I can't help but feel that pulling an entirely new faith out of a civilization as impacting in the timeline as Persia with absolutely no references would be leaning on the side of heresy from our standpoint. What do the others think?
That's essentially exactly what I'm saying a new Mithraic faith that is overwhelming of Persian civilization with minimal Roman influence, probably grouped in the Indo-hellenic grouping due to convenience of with a stretch Zoroastrian.
I can understand why it would be leaning on heresy as well although the lack of references doesn't seem like it would be to big of an issue considering the timeline gives the impression that Shaytana was far from finished working on it when he vanished.
Personally, I don't believe "Mithra-Mazda religion or whatever could still come about with it's differences to the Hellenistic Mithraism" as:
- in the real world, and in LI, people seem to like carving out religious differences rather than bridging them... The smaller the difference, the more efforts to make it big
- Mithra-Mazda and Hellenistic Mithras dont't have much in common, really
- these guys are losers. They will have adapted to their environment while trying to keep something of their identity, but no one in the region would be attracted by their spiritual offer. IRL, never heard of prisoners exercising much religious influence in the areas where they were taken to.
- in the real world, and in LI, people seem to like carving out religious differences rather than bridging them... The smaller the difference, the more efforts to make it big
- Mithra-Mazda and Hellenistic Mithras dont't have much in common, really
- these guys are losers. They will have adapted to their environment while trying to keep something of their identity, but no one in the region would be attracted by their spiritual offer. IRL, never heard of prisoners exercising much religious influence in the areas where they were taken to.