Russian Sprites

[unmerged(6620)]

After a long absence I stopped in for a look at EU II and noticed some amazing things going on with shields and templates.

What I saw convinced me that it was time to download the 1.08 patch and the beta.

So I took the plunge, assuming that I had backed up everything that I could possibly have needed to back up.

Wrong.

I backed up my shields and flag collection (which I'm not sure I even want to use at this point). I didn't back up my sprites.

I still have my work files for the medieval mod that I will probably get around to next year if I ever finish the unit portraits at Combat Mission.

But I lost my second period russian sprites, the red (?) cossacks that look a lot more appropriate than the out-of-the-box figures in morions.

I thought that they had been made by Mad King James, but I can't find the link. I also could have sworn that he was working on some persian figures as well.

So any help pointing me to the links on that would be appreciated.

I would also like to know how to adjust the palette for the flags -- I tried replacing the 20th century Russian Tricolor with a nice retro tsarist flag on a (probably) ahistorical green background, and ended up with a yellow blur on a red background.

And on a related note, in the last year I've seen some old fabrics which have me absolutely convinced that the appropriate 15th century symbol for the byzantine empire (as opposed to any particular ruling family) should be a gold double-headed eagle on a purple cloth. When the Russians started acting imperial they co-opted the symbol.

I did a search on sprites, but for some reason got a lot of listings for HOI and Crusader Kings.

 

[Birger]

Nice to have you back, long time no seen.

Here's MKJ's units, http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154984

For the flag palette, are you using the EGUFSM or the 1.08 patch?
The EGUFSM uses a palette that supports 24-bit flags, I "think" that the 1.08 patch still supports 8-bit flags. 24bit flags look much better but they shine trough the fog of war....
The palette can be easily edited by saving it either to 8- or 24bit, if I remeber correctly you need to edit these two:

flag palette.bmp & flag_palette5.bmp

Oh btw, the Russian tricolor dates back to 1693, first used as the personal standard of the Tzar.

 

[unmerged(6620)]

Thanks, Birger. Found the sprites, they're exactly what I was looking for. In theory the Poles and the Russians should have different color uniforms, but I think I like them the way they are.

Some of the work you've done with shields and coats of arms is brilliant, by the way (but you probably know that).

I tried playing around with those two palette bmp's. As far as getting the Russian flag to show up as green, no problem. I simply used the two files from 1.0. The problem is, of course, that it made everything else look terrible.

Is there any place I can go to read up on exactly what I have to do to those files to restore the old green Russian flag without causing massive chaos in all the others? What I really like about the old set-up was that you could drive yourself absolutely nuts switching flags and shields until you got things looking just the way you wanted them to. Didn't MKJ or Havard have a website somewhere that described all of that?

This is not really the place to discuss this, but there were a few COA's that didn't quite fit into their templates. I can send you a list at some point, but I may not be able to get around to doing a systematic check for a week or two.

I need to spend some time reading the request thread. As you may recall I come from the school that believes you should have multiple options for things, and that you should be able to switch in and out of them in groups. In practical terms that means that the flag/shield composition of EUII could and should be a little different for each scenario. Sometimes the Dutch flag should have an orange stripe, and sometimes the stripe should be red, depending on the period -- the game design won't accomodate that, but if I know I'll be playing an orange stripe period, I could assemble a folder with all the period-specific graphics, as well as, perhaps, another folder with optional alternatives. To make that approach work, however, you need to be able to switch in and out at will. But to do that you'll need to have eliminated any graphics surprises in advance, and I sense that the graphics infrastructre of 1.08 is not quite as open as it used to be.

I think there also used to be a site somewhere that discussed the mechanics of actually making a flag. I've gotten pretty good at making large, static flags in Photoshop and Paint (check out my "Little Semiotics" mod for Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin on the Battlefront forum, as well as my German unit portraits that Paradox would never be able to use for reasons of Euro-harmonization), and would be curious to see what happens with the EUII flags, but I sense that I may need to use a program that I don't have.

On the subject of flags in general, I think that you have to remember that the flags in the game are, after a certain point, an in-game fiction and a convenience to the player. As you well know, flags as political symbols in the modern sense didn't really exist in most of the periods covered by the game, so the editor has a certain amount of free rein as to what can be done. I also think that you have to look at the flags not as single, historical research problems (as much fun as they are to solve), but in aesthetic groups. Again, as you are very aware, there have always been areas where there are simply too many flags of similar colors adjacent to each other. The classic case is the red flag, which shows up with disastrous frequency in the eastern mediterranean. I hear that there might be a green Ottoman flag floating around somewhere that would relieve part of the stress, but having red flags in Venice, the Papal States, and the OE causes too much visual confusion. I've been known to use a completely ahistorical white and gold Vatican flag to relieve some of the stress, and a blue Venetian flag helps as well. A green Turkish flag would give the two Italians a bit more wiggle room, but I can't remember what colors the OE has on the other side of it these days.

But to play around with that kind of flag switching, besides needing to zoom out and decide if the overall map is readable or not (they didn't really use these things, so the flags are allowed to have a game-related design, as long as the symbols used have some historical justification -- there are probably three or four perfectly valid flags options for each one in use) you need to be able to make simple switch experiments without corrupting the color scheme of everything else.

 

[Birger]

Thanks, Birger. Found the sprites, they're exactly what I was looking for. In theory the Poles and the Russians should have different color uniforms, but I think I like them the way they are.

Some of the work you've done with shields and coats of arms is brilliant, by the way (but you probably know that).

No problem, glad to help out, perhaps you can edit them a bit?
Thanks, glad you like my (& cccino's & MKJ's) work, it sure took some time to finish...

I tried playing around with those two palette bmp's. As far as getting the Russian flag to show up as green, no problem. I simply used the two files from 1.0. The problem is, of course, that it made everything else look terrible.

Is there any place I can go to read up on exactly what I have to do to those files to restore the old green Russian flag without causing massive chaos in all the others? What I really like about the old set-up was that you could drive yourself absolutely nuts switching flags and shields until you got things looking just the way you wanted them to. Didn't MKJ or Havard have a website somewhere that described all of that?

Hmm, not that I'm aware of but here's a link to Havards EUII site: http://home.broadpark.no/~havmoe/EU/

E-mail me the flag and I'll see what I can do; jocke@micomail.com

This is not really the place to discuss this, but there were a few COA's that didn't quite fit into their templates. I can send you a list at some point, but I may not be able to get around to doing a systematic check for a week or two.

Sure send me that list whenever you got the time or post it in the EGUFSM thread.

I need to spend some time reading the request thread. As you may recall I come from the school that believes you should have multiple options for things, and that you should be able to switch in and out of them in groups. In practical terms that means that the flag/shield composition of EUII could and should be a little different for each scenario. Sometimes the Dutch flag should have an orange stripe, and sometimes the stripe should be red, depending on the period -- the game design won't accomodate that, but if I know I'll be playing an orange stripe period, I could assemble a folder with all the period-specific graphics, as well as, perhaps, another folder with optional alternatives. To make that approach work, however, you need to be able to switch in and out at will. But to do that you'll need to have eliminated any graphics surprises in advance, and I sense that the graphics infrastructre of 1.08 is not quite as open as it used to be.

It's allways good with multiple options, you know, we got this now:

- Implemented the flagname extension code, so that events can change the flags/shields of a nation with the command "type = flagname which = "test", to change for example ENG to ENGtest for flags/shields.

I think there also used to be a site somewhere that discussed the mechanics of actually making a flag. I've gotten pretty good at making large, static flags in Photoshop and Paint (check out my "Little Semiotics" mod for Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin on the Battlefront forum, as well as my German unit portraits that Paradox would never be able to use for reasons of Euro-harmonization), and would be curious to see what happens with the EUII flags, but I sense that I may need to use a program that I don't have.

Here's MKJ manual for making a flag: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37542

Download the flag template here:
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156203

You make the flags in photoshop, MKJ made us a action so there's really easy to make one.

On the subject of flags in general, I think that you have to remember that the flags in the game are, after a certain point, an in-game fiction and a convenience to the player. As you well know, flags as political symbols in the modern sense didn't really exist in most of the periods covered by the game, so the editor has a certain amount of free rein as to what can be done. I also think that you have to look at the flags not as single, historical research problems (as much fun as they are to solve), but in aesthetic groups. Again, as you are very aware, there have always been areas where there are simply too many flags of similar colors adjacent to each other. The classic case is the red flag, which shows up with disastrous frequency in the eastern mediterranean. I hear that there might be a green Ottoman flag floating around somewhere that would relieve part of the stress, but having red flags in Venice, the Papal States, and the OE causes too much visual confusion. I've been known to use a completely ahistorical white and gold Vatican flag to relieve some of the stress, and a blue Venetian flag helps as well. A green Turkish flag would give the two Italians a bit more wiggle room, but I can't remember what colors the OE has on the other side of it these days.

But to play around with that kind of flag switching, besides needing to zoom out and decide if the overall map is readable or not (they didn't really use these things, so the flags are allowed to have a game-related design, as long as the symbols used have some historical justification -- there are probably three or four perfectly valid flags options for each one in use) you need to be able to make simple switch experiments without corrupting the color scheme of everything else.

I'm aware of this but the goal with EGUFSM (and GUFSM) was to make the most historical accurate flags and shields eventhough some of them looked pretty much the same. Tver and Muscovy comes to mind...