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Sadly, I think the current XP system is a huge step back from AoW 3:

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I'm too green to weigh in here, but one incentive I've found for manual combat is that even inexperienced I can do better than the auto. The auto seems to work in terms of acceptable losses. Well poo on that! Those are my people you are callously gambling with!
 
Ethorin said:
the abuse is literally "I get a few more units xp than someone doing it with one stack" it's not nearly as tediously game ruining as spending 30 minutes a fight as you purposely drag it out and out and out and out and out. Also those two units off to the side are highly vulnerable to getting focused out, I've done EXACTLY that to AI even with minimal army splitting.
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For the 500th time, I'm obviously not suggesting to implement the vanilla AoW3 system, so all the posts suggesting that are just ... well, polemic and provocational.
 
Jolly Joker said:
For the 500th time, I'm obviously not suggesting to implement the vanilla AoW3 system, so all the posts suggesting that are just ... well, polemic and provocational.
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i mean except for the part where you said 'reintroduce the aow3 system' but ok

also people have spent most of their time critiquing all the problems with the aow3 system and why they dont want it

thing is the best way to make something like this 'optional'...is just for someone to make a mod. Maybe you could!
 
Well JJ you’ve made your point. Some agree and a lot of people in this thread don’t. Not need to repeat the same arguments. You’re starting to sound like a Theocrat Evangelist... :confused:
 
If you play a game for years the battles that are "no-risk" are not interesting. Which leaves the interesting battles, but it's obviously impossible to play a map and have only challenging battles, except when you voluntarily shackle yourself (which won't work playing competitively, and playing not competetitively you could keep the AoW 3 system, shackling yourself). As I said, when a battle can be fought in autocombat with the same result - no losses, all units are battle-ready - there is no reason to get the same result manually, since it just wastes time. The AoW 3 system makes all battles interesting.

@LordTheRon
Well, you (plural) have made your points clear as well - you don't want the old Aow 3 system - and you repeat that ad infinitum. Well, I want the system, but not the way it was, so we keep talking past each other.
 
Jolly Joker said:
If you play a game for years the battles that are "no-risk" are not interesting. Which leaves the interesting battles, but it's obviously impossible to play a map and have only challenging battles, except when you voluntarily shackle yourself (which won't work playing competitively, and playing not competetitively you could keep the AoW 3 system, shackling yourself). As I said, when a battle can be fought in autocombat with the same result - no losses, all units are battle-ready - there is no reason to get the same result manually, since it just wastes time. The AoW 3 system makes all battles interesting.
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But I don't find XP management interesting at all. I play tactical combat because I'm interested in tactical combat, not tactical XP management. I don't want the game to add pointless, grindy mechanics on top of tactical combat to make it artificially "more interesting".

I mean... what if Triumph introduced a new mechanic: tactical make-up management. "Hm.. I could attack with my laser blaster, but then I'd neet to reapply lip gloss next turn... better use a grenade this time. Oh, wait, my lancer over there just overloaded on powder, she can take the brunt this time, and my biomancers are carrying insta-powder kits anyway." This would add a new "tactical resource" for us to manage, increasing tactical depth, therefore making combat more interesting and all that... except it has nothing to do with combat.

The game shouldn't try coerce us to go through less interesting battles by adding superfluous resource mechanics. Such mechanics might make them more interesting and enjoyable for you, but that's not true of everyone. I find them more of a chore than those easy, no-stakes battles themselves.

And again, there's nothing wrong with players using autocombat when they're not in the mood for tactical combat, whether it's because it's too easy or for any other reason.
 
Your comparison is wrong, because allocating XP means, improving the units not randomly, but impoving those units whose improvements you need. As a repeated example, if you play Gobs and have Swarm Darters you want them to get more HPs asap, being able to allocate more XP to them serves a tactical purpose that is game relevant.

@Ethorin
That does just increase the amount of available XP, making the game easier. Don't forget, if you can beat one you can beat them all (of the same difficulty).
 
Jolly Joker, shouldn't we consider the possibility of bringing less units to a battle to be XP gain and distribution management?

It's probably to early to judge how well this works but arguably, assuming that a skilled player would outperform the auto-resolve, the player could then send fewer units to battle, and in this way give those units more XP than they would otherwise get using auto-resolve.
 
I would agree with this for AoW 3, but not for Planetfall. The reason for this is that XP for units is largely secondary. The units don't get much, and even if Champions upgrades are implemented (which will happen, when you look at the mod tools) this won't change. XP will give units more HP mainly, slightly better hit chances, and possibly an ability at last. Mods will be more important here.
With Heroes, this will look differently, though, since you can not onlyupgrade them as in AoW3, you also can buy abilities for the points gained that are quite powerful, and stats as well. So basically, yes, you go in with FEW units - but preferably with HEROES. Going in with units doesn't gain much, because the gain isn't so great. (If champions upgrades are implemented, they will gain a regular health upgrade for the full XP cycle, that is, A T1 will need 40 XP to gain 4 HP.)

Bottom line: when you play with FEW heroes (or only the leader), you will try to fight small battles with MANY units to give many units the first levels (making fights easy) and big battles with all heroes you have. When you play with more heroes you will put them all in one stack and do all important battles with them.
Great.
 
Jolly Joker said:
I would agree with this for AoW 3, but not for Planetfall. The reason for this is that XP for units is largely secondary. The units don't get much, and even if Champions upgrades are implemented (which will happen, when you look at the mod tools) this won't change. XP will give units more HP mainly, slightly better hit chances, and possibly an ability at last. Mods will be more important here.
With Heroes, this will look differently, though, since you can not onlyupgrade them as in AoW3, you also can buy abilities for the points gained that are quite powerful, and stats as well. So basically, yes, you go in with FEW units - but preferably with HEROES. Going in with units doesn't gain much, because the gain isn't so great. (If champions upgrades are implemented, they will gain a regular health upgrade for the full XP cycle, that is, A T1 will need 40 XP to gain 4 HP.)

Bottom line: when you play with FEW heroes (or only the leader), you will try to fight small battles with MANY units to give many units the first levels (making fights easy) and big battles with all heroes you have. When you play with more heroes you will put them all in one stack and do all important battles with them.
Great.
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I trust your math and explanation. But wouldnt this focusing of heroes lose their primary function, acting as force multipliers? The stack boosting and 'commander' skill lines would only trigger for the leftmost hero. You may have optimised xp gain, but wouldnt this be sub optimal for all other roles. Against AI this would not be an issue, but wouldnt competent players be able to counter hero squads with kill squads (cloaked fliers, skirmishers, snipers, etc)?
 
Respectfully disagree because I don't think it's a fun mechanic and don't think it would be good for the game in the long run to introduce it as an option. A very small amount of extra XP for performance in battle would probably be fine though, to give a bit of additional character to units.
 
The choice isn't a choice, its a tax.

Play the game manually or have entire strategies eliminated because the wrong units won't get xp. Spending 5 turns to run my support across the map while everyone else kites the almost dead remenants of an army wasn't fun, it was time wasting.

If people want it back as an option that's fine, options are options, but the default (and especially for any comp scene) should be xp share.
 
Good lordy, its been like what 3-4 years since I last fought with Jollyjoker, i have to say you PBEM Players is very masochist, you guys just plain can't help it but compulsively cheat no matter what. PBEM players perverted the AOW3 exp system for their own ends, and it resulted in a exp system change in AOW:planetfall. Even when I showed him the best way to deal with cheaters like that. Even if dude spend hours doing depraved things towards a level 1 goblin defending a goldmine gaining unholy experience points for promotion in the underworld satanic rituals or things like that.. it cannot be done in live pvp because the player they're fighting will get angry that they're wasting their time because the opponent is sitting there watching him do depraved things to poor goblins. What will happen? The opponent quit and start searching and goblin player don't get to continue exp abuse.

This isn't possible in PBEM matches you say? No, its entirely possible. The PBEM's opponent can just quit and get a new opponent, thus forcing the exp abuser to seek new opponent if he want victories but this doesn't happen which respectfully leads me to one clear conclusion..

PBEM players unless agree upon before the match will abuse the exp no matter what, its one of those unwritten rules that noone talks about. This is what the aow devs need to understand, PBEM's exp abuse has no impact on me whatsoever for i would just quit on them and get new opponent or simply play in singleplayer.

Therefore Balance is achieved. PBEM play with PBEM. Live pvp play with live pvp.


Tl;dr version: PBEM players can choose to not abuse the exp system, but they chose to abuse it. If they chose to, its out of my hands. And I can't do anything about it.


Disclaimer: I like to use any of my heals that has their cooldown is ready to go and use them before the battle end, its my reward for surviving the battle. Usually just cast a heal and then kill the last enemy. Or if I feel like a soldier is just one kill from promoting then I will do that specific kill if it is convenient enough to do so, if its on other end of battlefield then screw that. I'm finishing the battle. I can kill some other enemy in next fight to get that promotion.
 
orrr they could just use game mechanics which dont encourage abuse
 
Honestly I like autocombating minor battles or even some major ones on bigger maps were I have to turn more of my action towards the big picture, and reserve the tactical combat for closest battles, testing a new type of modified unit, and the coolest of battle maps, and seiges of cities.
 
I didnt like AoW3 at all, ive played it, didnt understand how to play the game never explains the units are too small. so far ive been playing planetfall and I ADORE it, the combat is insane!, my own custom commanders is badass, loadouts for them is awesome, and picking out talents for them when they level is super impactful. I love the flaws and good things system you get before going in. I like how distinct the factions are.

I also like how it doesnt feel like a grind, AoW3 feels like I am expected to run around farming battles to get strong, but AoW planetfall makes battles feel more like something id want to do rather then doing it for the sake of EXP, I want to kill that group cos they're in the territory I want and I might get something awesome equipment or mod wise, and the cover based system and shooting makes it feel exciting. AoW3 "meh" for now, AoW planetfall "instantly hooked".


I dont think you should be forced to grind tbh, it should be like planetfall is, part of the immersion and universe. I am yet to autobattle even once haha, ive played out all the combats
 
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