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Crookback

Crookback

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Jan 9, 2005
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Okay, here we can discuss the future possible addition of an extra scenario or two. There is a (long dead) 1700 scenario thread, but I believe that date has been largely dismissed anyway. The consensus was a post-WoSS date, perhaps 1715 or 1718 or something of that nature. However, regardless of which date is chosen, it's a lot of work...

My second point of discussion would be the possibility of a future pre-1419 start, something which I've always wanted but wasn't sure of the state of popular opinion.

The most obvious date is of course 1337 (don't want to go too early) but this is largely due to the Anglo-French conflict, and as I am largely ignorant of the affairs/history of other countries during this period, the opinions of others' regarding the state of the rest of Eurasia would be helpful.

Does anyone have any suggestions for other alternate dates?

With the consent of the rest of the active HC, I would like permission to begin a (no doubt very rough) pre-1419 scenario, once a date has been voted on.

As I say, 1337 would be my current choice but that is largely through tradition, not research...
 
1753 and the start of the Seven Years' War? It was the first global conflict. (=/= World War)
 
There should be somewhere a thread already open for scenario addons, I can't remember where although.

My vote is for a starting date on 1st January 1735 or when the War of Polish succession ends some day between 1735 and 1738.

A 1337 starting date would be good but probably unmanageable as the situation in 1419 will be very different from current settings, especially dealing with technology an such.
 
I would avoid a 1337 start. One good reason is the bit outlined by Bordic, the other that it is going to cause headaches for a number of areas. As one example, I'd have to engineer the proper collapse of the Il-Khanate (not the hardest as it was on its death throes), the interactions of the states in the area (+the rise of the Ottomans) prior to Timur's rise and subjugation. And then in a within few short decades, the conquest of Delhi, Persia, Iraq, Anatolia and a shattering blow to the Golden Horde. Then I'd need to model the first Timurid collapse followed shortly by a re-unification by Shah Rukh...so that we could make it to 1415. The overall impossibility of such / the number of tags I would need, would be a lot. And that's just a region or so. ;)

Here's a thread where similar concerns were expressed when a 1392/1405 scenario was bandied about.http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182434

Thinking about it though, I'd love (which would be unusual for us) a 1702 scenario that would give us a WoSS scenario.
 
Garbon said:
Or perhaps a late 1453 scenario which would see a 'close' to the HYW and the Ottomans in Constantinople.
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That would be a good compromise, I suppose. :)

Regarding 1702 - I proposed a similar date but it was suggested that a post-war scenario would work better. Personally, I'm not too fussed which we go with, but I always loved the idea of a scenario starting mid-way through the WoSS, at the point where either side could have won (before Marlborough's decisive victories and Louis' recruitment drive).
 
1618, so you could play the 30 years war...

That would be awesome :cool:


Also, some 1700ish scenario would be cool as well!
 
The reason why I have suggested 1735 is to avoid the WoSS and have the Spanish dominions in Europe already lost.

In this way Austria will have the Spanish Netherlands, Milan and Mantua. Sardinia will be part of Savoy and Prussia will be already formed with her Rhine provinces. And the HRE boundary will be more acceptable in order to arrange for future War of Austrian Succession and the 7YW.
 
Or a game where you could choose the start date...

Anyway, construction of new scenarios could be less difficult if we had history files for each country (all historical DP changes with event reference and date, owned and/or controlled provinces with dates, etc...) and each province (status: TP - colony - city, capital gain/loss, buildings gain/loss, manufactory gain/loss, maybe population and always dates for each "event" and event reference if involved). New map could be the perfect step in order to create such files because all events will have to be reviewed.
 
But we can still at least keep track of events we include and effects on countries and provinces. This is the way 1520 and 1648 scenario were reworked for provinces but we still have a problem for DPs and "computation work" will have to be redone for any new scenario.

Ownership/control of provinces is not the most important thing for scenarios. Accurate historical map(s) can do the job very well. ;)

And remember I tried to do it for population long time ago, and result was... well... let's forget it. :eek:o

EDIT: and part of this dicussion should happen elsewhere. We can't talk freely about it here.
 
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YodaMaster said:
But we can still at least keep track of events we include and effects on countries and provinces. This is the way 1520 and 1648 scenario were reworked for provinces but we still have a problem for DPs and "computation work" will have to be redone for any new scenario.
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Fair enough.

YodaMaster said:
Ownership/control of provinces is not the most important thing for scenarios. Accurate historical map(s) can do the job very well. ;)
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Are you sure on that? I think who controls/owns provinces can make/break things. After all, I remember there was a lot of discussion about how the Venetian-Hungarian (I believe) initial war should be setup. Yeah I think control is very important for starting dates that land on major wars.

YodaMaster said:
And remember I tried to do it for population long time ago, and result was... well... let's forget it. :eek:o
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Well it is a big undertaking to start up....and I think population was cared about the least as it wasn't as "big" a factor.

YodaMaster said:
EDIT: and part of this dicussion should happen elsewhere. We can't talk freely about it here.
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True.
 
Garbon said:
Are you sure on that? I think who controls/owns provinces can make/break things. After all, I remember there was a lot of discussion about how the Venetian-Hungarian (I believe) initial war should be setup. Yeah I think control is very important for starting dates that land on major wars.
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Indeed, history of ownership/countrol day by day is not important. But, of course, ownership/countrol becomes very important for the first day of the scenario (this is why I mentioned accurate historical map). And sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
 
YodaMaster said:
Indeed, history of ownership/countrol day by day is not important. But, of course, ownership/countrol becomes very important for the first day of the scenario (this is why I mentioned accurate historical map).
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Well I was still working from the eu3 way that you can pick the date you want to start. That's why I question eu3's historical build. ;)
 
And I work on computation for accurate manpower/income/religion/culture for provinces and DPs/techlevels for countries. But I'm fed up with doing it manually... ;)

This is something computers are made for, isn't it? They just need a database.
 
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