Yes, fresh troops are modeled for Dauphiné but not alliance with Scotland.Toio said:
What will prevent Dauphiné from proposing alliance in 1419 then?Toio said:
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YodaMaster said:
i will experiment with an early alliance with DAU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auld_alliance
Garbon said:
the only alliance which works, that is causes less problems until 1428 is
scotland with desmond
the alliance at start (1419 GC) of SCO with desmond seems to be the best for the game. only problem is that the original alliance of SCO with FRA(DAU) in 1428 most times happens around 1435.
any problems with this?
any problems with this?
A couple of questions.
Has the alliance between Scotland and Desmond in 1419 any historical basis?
Was the so-called alliance between Scotland and France any more effective after 1428 than it was before? (i.e. did Scottish troops fight England on British soil at any time between 1428 and 1453? because this is what will happen in the game if we implement this alliance.)
Did we try lowering relations between ARG and SCO in the 1419 setup?
Has the alliance between Scotland and Desmond in 1419 any historical basis?
Was the so-called alliance between Scotland and France any more effective after 1428 than it was before? (i.e. did Scottish troops fight England on British soil at any time between 1428 and 1453? because this is what will happen in the game if we implement this alliance.)
Did we try lowering relations between ARG and SCO in the 1419 setup?
Toio said:
Yes I have a problem if we just allied them because it worked nicely but had no historical basis.
I agree with Garbon. Could we try to lower relations with Aragon?
Scotland will still be free to ally any country anyway.
Scotland will still be free to ally any country anyway.
your comments confuse me
you want to know if its historical, well its not for a scotland -desmond alliance and yet you do not want to go historical ie scotland -dauphine/france coz it ruins the game
the truth is, historically, scotland and france had an alliance from the 13th century to 1560 , it was called AULD ALLIANCE. This alliance was periodically resigned as a new soverign of either state arose.
The problem is that in 1419 the scottish king was prisoner of the English. Some scottish nobles purposly failed to raised the ransom money to england for his release. other nobles could not afford the monies. the supportes of their king still abided by the Auld alliance and sent troops to aid france/dauphin. on the scottish kings release, he sought revenge on the scottish nobles which did not support him. he took 3 years to do this and then in 1428 resigned an alliance with france .
in 1429 and 1430 more scottish troops went to france to aid france.
one of many sites
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.com/bauges.htm
read about the auld alliance
to conclude, IF we go historical (which i initially as for) then Scotland must be allied with the dauphin in 1419 and must also ally with France when the new France emerges.
you want to know if its historical, well its not for a scotland -desmond alliance and yet you do not want to go historical ie scotland -dauphine/france coz it ruins the game
the truth is, historically, scotland and france had an alliance from the 13th century to 1560 , it was called AULD ALLIANCE. This alliance was periodically resigned as a new soverign of either state arose.
The problem is that in 1419 the scottish king was prisoner of the English. Some scottish nobles purposly failed to raised the ransom money to england for his release. other nobles could not afford the monies. the supportes of their king still abided by the Auld alliance and sent troops to aid france/dauphin. on the scottish kings release, he sought revenge on the scottish nobles which did not support him. he took 3 years to do this and then in 1428 resigned an alliance with france .
in 1429 and 1430 more scottish troops went to france to aid france.
one of many sites
http://www.siol-nan-gaidheal.com/bauges.htm
read about the auld alliance
to conclude, IF we go historical (which i initially as for) then Scotland must be allied with the dauphin in 1419 and must also ally with France when the new France emerges.
scotland needs to get snow in january and february . in all provinces except lothian
numbers should be changed from 3 to 5 for these provinces.
numbers should be changed from 3 to 5 for these provinces.
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Toio, we can't model the alliance between France and Scotland through the EU2 diplomatic system. The system is simply inadequate to represent certain things in history, like alliances and vassalizations of very specific nature. This is also true for free cities or apanage principalities, they just don't fit within the engine.
Fortunately, we have an event engine that can help us modelling these special cases like we already do for the Scottish troops fighting in France. I was not aware that more troops were sent after 1429 but if that is true, please feel free to add another event similar to the existing ones.
I still think we should try lowering the ARG/SCO relations, and see how it works.
Fortunately, we have an event engine that can help us modelling these special cases like we already do for the Scottish troops fighting in France. I was not aware that more troops were sent after 1429 but if that is true, please feel free to add another event similar to the existing ones.
I still think we should try lowering the ARG/SCO relations, and see how it works.
Scotland starts at +125 with every Catholic country (except England -75, Dauphiné and France over 125 as mentioned in setup file).Third Angel said:
Could we lower relations to 100 or 90 with all Iberian countries?
Toio said:your comments confuse me
you want to know if its historical, well its not for a scotland -desmond alliance and yet you do not want to go historical ie scotland -dauphine/france coz it ruins the game
Our comments aren't confusing at all. We can't represent the alliance in a Scotland is allied to France way as that would lead to England invading Scotland which didn't happen then. At the same time, that doesn't mean we should just make up an alliance for Scotland. The two parts aren't contradictory.
Garbon said:
we need to go historical, that is SCO with DAU alliance from 1419
so whats the issue if england invade scotland.? testing shows that scotland loose 1, 2 or 3 provinces. We then have/include in the James I is freed event, the release of english held scottish provinces. Scotland will still be a vassal of england ( which is the result in all my 6 test games) .
this scenario is far far better than having a scotland which is free to ally with anyone it likes and disrupt history in an unknown way ( depends on who they ally with)
- a new scottish generals might help, but i doubt it
- relation changes with the iberian areas will only help in preventing a worse scenario of play.
q. what happens if scotland ally with DAN, who has norway and sweden as well.
I much prefer an alliance of Scotland with DAU , in which we can "guide" the way the game is played for the first decade.
Garbon said:
You simply can't be serious...can you?
yes, we do it for italian states
What horrible things does Scotland do when free to ally?
Also, Scotland isn't an Italian minor. It is a decent 4 province state and I'd rather not say, oh well it loses 3 provinces early on...no big deal.
In other news, I've compiled a short list of generals and will posts them shortly. I envision that they will all be basically 2-2-2 generals with a slight increase here and there...as that is the point of introducing them.
Also, Scotland isn't an Italian minor. It is a decent 4 province state and I'd rather not say, oh well it loses 3 provinces early on...no big deal.
In other news, I've compiled a short list of generals and will posts them shortly. I envision that they will all be basically 2-2-2 generals with a slight increase here and there...as that is the point of introducing them.
Garbon said:
what happens now with scotland is this, 50% of games it allies with aragon, ARG then in a few years dow ENG for gasgoyne, knowing that SCO will dow in the north. If ARG does not ally with SCO , ARG never dow ENG.
other 50% of games, SCO allies with an irish minor ( usually desmond) ,
If we downgrade relations with ARG, CAS who will they (SCO) then ally with.....unknown, could be anyone in europe.
true, but I gave you a fix, a remedy .
I am not against generals for scotland, i just think they will not prevent/achieve much
the other issues are, since england historically is already at war, shouldn't 90% of english troops be in france as well as naval support at start of GC, should we give another 10000 english troops and place in normandy, ( and remove troops in england) historically they only captured it in 1418. i presume they would be needed to ensure no uprising
- should DAU start with any troops at all ?, as they really never had any in 1419 and relied on scottish men until 1420