Seems too easy for your vassal to become king

[ravynwolvf]

I finally managed to claw my way to a decent sized Scandinavian kingdom. I only had two vassals. All of a sudden I looked, and my one vassal was suddenly the king of Lapland, taking a third of my area with him. I managed to get it back eventually, but now my other vassal is suddenly the king of Sweden, and more land gone again.
I thought becoming king might give me some stability, but it actually seems worse. I felt more powerful and safe with just a couple of dukedoms.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

Theyre using the subjugation cb, which gives them whatever title the defender had. Sweden and lapland are quite small kingdoms that are easily formed, so your vassals subjugated the king there. A king cant be vassal to a king, so they became independent

 

[ravynwolvf]

I just don't see the point then of fighting for land, and then giving it to your vassals so they can start their own kingdoms. I just can't imagine King Henry the 5th saying "Oh look, Sir Bob the leper chieftain just formed Wales inside my territory. Jolly good for him! Huzzah!"

 

[ravynwolvf]

BTW, I think this falls under the category of "Give them an inch..."

 

[ravynwolvf]

Wow. And now my leader just. killed. my entire court. I'm just exhausted from dealing with all this sh-tuff. Has anyone ever compared this game to Rimworld?

 

[MummyMonk]

I just don't see the point then of fighting for land, and then giving it to your vassals so they can start their own kingdoms. I just can't imagine King Henry the 5th saying "Oh look, Sir Bob the leper chieftain just formed Wales inside my territory. Jolly good for him! Huzzah!"

It's not that the scenario is completely implausible, especially in tribal realms where laws are more lax, but what certainly doesn't help is that while the game takes time to notify the player of certain matters in great detail ('Mayor X is having an affair with courtier Y, press any key to continue', 'Prisoner N released: watch your steps now, N' – looking at you), some other things happen automatically or semi-automatically without any notification or possibility for player's input – like who gets which titles on partition, or interregnums (literally impossible in game's mechanics), or like when vassal is conquering a separate kingdom and automatically goes independent – perhaps we can negotiate this? Perhaps there could be a compromise where vassal gets all the land and liege gets top title, so that realm doesn't fracture, for some concessions? Perhaps there can be a dedicated faction with supporters on either side and various ways to convince vassals take a pro-loyalist and pro-independence stance? Oh well, this is a game about feudalism and personal relations, we don't do that here.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

I just don't see the point then of fighting for land, and then giving it to your vassals so they can start their own kingdoms. I just can't imagine King Henry the 5th saying "Oh look, Sir Bob the leper chieftain just formed Wales inside my territory. Jolly good for him! Huzzah!"

Henry V would be a feudal king of england, so his vassals wouldnt be able to declare such wars, they could however inherit a foreign throne and then seperate their lands from henry V's kingdom

 

[DiabloDeVille]

Wow. And now my leader just. killed. my entire court. I'm just exhausted from dealing with all this sh-tuff. Has anyone ever compared this game to Rimworld?

Did he have the berserker trait? If so, its the downside to all the buffs it gives.

 

[ravynwolvf]

It does seem like they should owe you something. The land was given to them so they would tend it and serve you. If they become more powerful, great, now get off my land and go live on your new ground.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

It does seem like they should owe you something. The land was given to them so they would tend it and serve you. If they become more powerful, great, now get off my land and go live on your new ground.

Its a tribal society, the bonds arent as strong, and as tribal you can just invade them once more

 

[naq29]

I just don't see the point then of fighting for land, and then giving it to your vassals so they can start their own kingdoms. I just can't imagine King Henry the 5th saying "Oh look, Sir Bob the leper chieftain just formed Wales inside my territory. Jolly good for him! Huzzah!"

then don't do it. If only the king of Francia did not give Normandie to Rollo...

 

[vandevere]

then don't do it. If only the king of Francia did not give Normandie to Rollo...

That kind of bit everyone in the butt, didn't it?

 

[hutail2025]

I just don't see the point then of fighting for land, and then giving it to your vassals so they can start their own kingdoms. I just can't imagine King Henry the 5th saying "Oh look, Sir Bob the leper chieftain just formed Wales inside my territory. Jolly good for him! Huzzah!"

I would keep an eye on my vassals’s wars and expansion and actively undermine them if I don’t want them to expand.

You just sat there and let them advance their plans.

 

[MummyMonk]

I would keep an eye on my vassals’s wars and expansion and actively undermine them if I don’t want them to expand.

You just sat there and let them advance their plans.

Holding vassals back from expanding the realm seems like fighting the game mechanics instead of actual adversaries though. And problem is that when vassals carve enough land to get their own independent title, they automatically take all their land with them and there is no way to negotiate that. Like, English kings held certain titles and lands in France, but that land was still considered part of France, only that King of England was an independent king in his own realm and simultaneously a vassal of the French king for certain titles. There were more cases like that irl, and there were disputes around that irl, and it would be great to have those disputes in the game in some form, but right now the game doesn't model this at all: it just rips the land from previous realm and says "oopsies!", and we are left to see Ireland owning an exclave county in the middle of France and other stuff like that.

 

[Bisonmask]

Just invade your old vassal, it's trivially easy, and stop letting them amass kingdom-sized power bases under you

 

[DiabloDeVille]

I would keep an eye on my vassals’s wars and expansion and actively undermine them if I don’t want them to expand.

You just sat there and let them advance their plans.

We dont really have those mechanics in game tho. Stop vassal war rarely works due to ai personality, and then yiu cant use it as an imprisonment reason.

Holding vassals back from expanding the realm seems like fighting the game mechanics instead of actual adversaries though. And problem is that when vassals carve enough land to get their own independent title, they automatically take all their land with them and there is no way to negotiate that. Like, English kings held certain titles and lands in France, but that land was still considered part of France, only that King of England was an independent king in his own realm and simultaneously a vassal of the French king for certain titles. There were more cases like that irl, and there were disputes around that irl, and it would be great to have those disputes in the game in some form, but right now the game doesn't model this at all: it just rips the land from previous realm and says "oopsies!", and we are left to see Ireland owning an exclave county in the middle of France and other stuff like that.

Its less fighting game mechanics, and more using them. As feudal you're more limited with cbs, but get more stability for it. As tribal you can expand more easily, but can be challenged in combat for the right to rule, as well as be subjugated by tribal neighbours. In ck2, you got claims to all lands that went independent, e.g. Normandy after winning the norman conquest, which ck3 sadly lacks