Sengoku - Development Diary #6 - The Court

[Captain Gars]

So as there are daimyo and hatamoto, can the hatamoto have vassals when they grow strong enough? or will the vassals named by the hatamoto become the daimyo's vassals?
Just like when in CK you are a count, give your son a title and he becomes a vassal to your liege instead of you.

A kokujin (the title hatamoto isn't used) can't have vassals unless he's an independent kokujin, i.e. his own clan leader, but that's rare. Instead he can petition the clan leader to grant him the daimyo title once he controlls enough kori (provinces) in a kuni (historical japanese provinces, or "daimyoships"). So starting as a kokujin you can advance up the ladder by becoming a daimyo and either break free and form your own clan (for non-dynasty members) or usurp the clan leader's position (for dynasty members) or be elected clan leader.

 

[unmerged(89129)]

hm... did sengoku era japan have courts? i don't know that much about the period but it seems out of place.

 

[semaphore]

hm... did sengoku era japan have courts? i don't know that much about the period but it seems out of place.

What's out of place about courts? Sengoku Japan certainly have plenty of lords who ruled their feudal holdings with plenty of councillors, which is basically what courts are, right?

 

[Sjiveru]

'Court' does have connotations of European monarchs, on the other hand, Japanese for the sake of Japanese should be avoided.

 

[tului]

Court is easily understood. A problem I had in EU:Rome was that I couldn't always remember what Aedile and all the other titles actually were. And I could at least read and pronounce them. I'm with Sjiveru, Japanese just to have it be Japanese doesn't make much sense.

 

[RedRooster81]

Court is easily understood. A problem I had in EU:Rome was that I couldn't always remember what Aedile and all the other titles actually were. And I could at least read and pronounce them. I'm with Sjiveru, Japanese just to have it be Japanese doesn't make much sense.

It does make it more accessible, which is the point, right? I could never figure out the HRE reform names in EU3, because I have no understanding at all of German.

The concept of "court" goes across cultures, I think rather well, one of those universal ideas that rises up to meet similar challenges in very different cultures. There could be a Mafia mod for Sengoku or CK2 or Rome, and I think that only so much would be lost. Feudalism is about who you can influence (who owes you tribute, who you owe protection), who you can trust (with your lands, with your life), and what resources your dynasty can exploit (in terms of a larger or smaller demense, public officeholding, etc.). So "face" was very important in terms of honor, infamy, and respect. And your "court" in different places just meant your closest advisors, people with whom you daily trust your and your family's lives, whether or not you formally sit together to receive the entreaties and grievances of those under your protection.

 

[Sjiveru]

That mod would be fricking awesome.

 

[chatnoir17]

In fact, there is a Gotfather Mod for CK1 made by some japanese fans.
Sadly it is still work in progress.

By the way the word "court" sounds reasonable for me.
I think that THE court meant emperor's one in Kyoto, but daimyos had also residences for their households.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

"Court" is used in official translations of Japan during that history to describe them (usually talking about the Imperial court though).

 

[Drakken]

What about the Imperial and Shogunal courts? Will they play a role? Will both the bakufu and Imperial courts will distribute ranks and titles, for example?

Keeping the Imperial and shogunal courts well-funded so that they could fund the ceremonies was an important money-sink for rulers, and Kyoto was still the sight for all ambitions to rule Japan.

 

[Captain Gars]

What about the Imperial and Shogunal courts? Will they play a role? Will both the bakufu and Imperial courts will distribute ranks and titles, for example?

Keeping the Imperial and shogunal courts well-funded so that they could fund the ceremonies was an important money-sink for rulers, and Kyoto was still the sight for all ambitions to rule Japan.

There are ten court ranks available to "buy" for you and your heir and a few decisios who lets you fund ceremonies or even the imperial household in exchange for honor.

 

[Drakken]

There are ten court ranks available to "buy" for you and your heir and a few decisios who lets you fund ceremonies or even the imperial household in exchange for honor.

Neat.

Can the number of titles be increased by modding? I still have my vast list of court titles somewhere from my research for translations in the latest versions of Nobunaga's Ambition.

 

[Captain Gars]

Neat.

Can the number of titles be increased by modding? I still have my vast list of court titles somewhere from my research for translations in the latest versions of Nobunaga's Ambition.

They're not hardcoded but implemented as decisions, so yes you could in theory add as many as you like.

 

[Drakken]

That's right ! Maybe the problem is with the word "court", maybe it should be replaced with something more japanese sounding word ?

Then one possibility would be Kashindan, which was the Japanese term for a Lord's vassal band, which would be the bulk of his personal council.

I'll look over in my books if there is a more precise term, however.

EDIT: Searched a little bit, and another alternative would be Karō, which was the set of elders and advisors around a Lord.