Shadow Realm - Campaign

[Refineus]

Thank you Rodmar. I will see what I can do. Currently, I'm in moving progress again and I believe I will work on everything in March when I find the time.

1) Log after scenario 1 's completion:

I will see what I can do about the previous feedback and this one. Regardless, the intended purpose of Las Melen quest will be a little more intensified and not paying attention to the details of the quest can create a little side effect. I noticed you managed to bypass my intentions of the quest and this is good.

2) More feedback on the UG part:

You discovered what inside there. It's one of Werlacs old treasuries chambers and scrying pool which gave him vision over parts of Athla. However, the area should be clear of defenders.

3) Feedback on the SR part:

The intended scenario of Shadow Realm part is more of a story purpose, letting Astral run around freely will actually break the intentions of the besieged warriors. The scripting involved can be improved to let them engage each other by altering the groups. The reason is timing is very, very difficult to do to let them fight at the same time as the map progress in the background. So I would more consider this to be a story "rescue" part which is established when you arrive. Balancing the numbers between defenders and attackers to be "somewhat" equal with the other part not dying can be difficult. However, adding the absolute strongest units in the back while the a.i push the weaker ones can be absolutely possible, but difficult if the a.i gets "afraid".

 

[Rodmar18]

As for Las Melen, it wasn't ill wilI on my part... I never felt like urged to fulfill this no-turn limit quest, because all that was sent to me was one single army of, say 2 Inf, 1 Archer, 1 Caster, 1 Wraith, every few turns. They relentlessly crashed on my nearest town, helping me levelling-up a little.

As for the other quest, is it intended that I found the nearest town 1) Independent, and 2) defended by but one lesser elemental? Also, the "army" that was guarding the "prison" was a single Exalted.


By the way, I'd need some advice. I've started second scenario, and perhaps, I broke a part of it. As I had retained a "Music Box of the Siren" from scen 1, I could seduce my master when he went forth to teach me loyalty. I'm now still at war with him, though one of my heroes is... him. Is this of any consequence? Do I have to reload before going on testing?

Also, I'd be interested to know if we'll play with Esnodil again. It's because she holds a third of my items from scen 1!

I join another screenshot, in case you want to monitor the evolution of the armies strength.

 

[Refineus]

As for Las Melen, it wasn't ill wilI on my part... I never felt like urged to fulfill this no-turn limit quest, because all that was sent to me was one single army of, say 2 Inf, 1 Archer, 1 Caster, 1 Wraith, every few turns. They relentlessly crashed on my nearest town, helping me levelling-up a little.

As for the other quest, is it intended that I found the nearest town 1) Independent, and 2) defended by but one lesser elemental? Also, the "army" that was guarding the "prison" was a single Exalted.

The intended quest for Las Melen is to stop Melenis old nest to spawn undead things. Everything is pointed towards razing the city to complete the quest. However, there is way to bypass this which I do not agree with. I wont spoil anything for the more sadistic way how the quest will playout in next version.

It seems that the prison has no money to support its quest. 1 exalted seems not right, it means that the quest might not be completed.

By the way, I'd need some advice. I've started second scenario, and perhaps, I broke a part of it. As I had retained a "Music Box of the Siren" from scen 1, I could seduce my master when he went forth to teach me loyalty. I'm now still at war with him, though one of my heroes is... him. Is this of any consequence? Do I have to reload before going on testin

How do you mean and who did you seduce?

Also, I'd be interested to know if we'll play with Esnodil again. It's because she holds a third of my items from scen 1!

I have not yet decided her fate. I have room to include some returning characters in each scenario.

 

[Rodmar18]

Here's a screenshot for the prison warden.

How do you mean and who did you seduce?

Please see the second screenshot!

 

[Refineus]

Here's a screenshot for the prison warden.


Please see the second screenshot!

Cool. Then I can apply a fix for these later.

 

[Rodmar18]

Scenario 2

I just reloaded back to turn 22, because of my bad habit of letting roamers sites free to produce units (this is ordinarily useful to level my own troops...). What happened is that I lose several veteran and elite T1 to single elemental stacks (they are powerful and frequent, as compared to Shadow Lord roamers), and never really could build a decent garrison, and now, around turn 80, the arch-enemy takes my capital with 8 Titans...

• 1) Quest inconsistencies or bugs

- Upon finding his future capital, the player receives a quest "Southern Tracks": "We beging by searching in the southern areas" about a bridge. Then after the meeting with M., the player receives another quest "Northern Tracks": "We begin by searching in the northern areas" about looking for M. The phrasing "We begin by searching" seems odd to me. Does it mean "Let's begin by searching in this direction (and postpone searching in other directions)" or "Let's begin our search in this direction (whatever directions we are currently searching in)"? Because in the second quest, we can't begin then, if we've already began searching in the south. It's kind of fuzzy.

- As often with AoW3, I could localize some towns far away through the clouds, upon loading a saved game, as if I had a nest of spies all over the map. I saw a Draconian town and an Orcish town in the NW, both occupied by Demon Lords. Then, I don't remember when this happened, but a Tren's "worthless slaves" event did give me an alignment penalty and I witnessed one of those northern towns being razed. Curiously, Tren was not met until one of his army got close to my capital, later. Immediatly checking my diplomatic panel, I was informed that I had razed two cities indeed, one orcish and one goblin, and then, I could see their ruins (making for three northern cities, including the Draconian one, still standing). Isn't a not yet received quest interfering here, as if I had purposedly left those northern towns undefended (though two of them at least were already occupied by Shadow Lords)? I suspect this because, much later, when my troops came by the northern bridge, Trend spoke to me about the utility of breeding slaves, and I received a quest to go to the northern (enslaved) cities, which (in my game) were razed already, as I said.
​

• 2) Shadow Gate's description

- Perhaps I didn't pay notice to what the arch-enemy said, but Shadow Gate act as teleporters inside SR, though their description states "A gate that allows travel between Athla and the Shadow Realm"... Perhaps, if they were not diverted by the arch-enemy, you could have two devices: the one used to enter SR (from UG), that corresponds the description, and another one, a "Shadow Teleporter" that would link two locations inside SR (like the ones on this map). Their models derivates indeed from Athla's teleporters'. Indeed, to the north, near the Archon fort, there is a normal teleporter.
​

• 3) Typo

- Grevara's dialog: "There must be away to reach..." -> "There must be a way to reach..."
​

• 4) Second encounter with M.

- Ha, well done. My stack could retreat through the gate, only to be destroyed on the next turn. But to this end, M. splat his armies in two (and thus lose this one when I counter-attacked). Isn't there a mean to force the A.I. to not split its stacks? Either M.'s stack was killed by Indies, and his first stack should have assisted him, or his two stacks should have entered the gate (note that I play with simultaneaous turns, could this explain that?).
​

• 5) Shadow Weed

- Why don't they give production/resource bonus when in your domain? Still, they retain a proprietary flag, as do Haste Berries when in your domain.

​

• 6) Graphical glitches

- SE Hunter: the model gets iridescence.
- Central bridge (south to the northernmost bridge): tactical model missing.
- Northern Archon town: terrain is too low level? No coastal feature on the town's centre hex.​

 

[Refineus]

1) Quest inconsistencies or bugs

For the most part I think I will melt those north respective south directions to become a big quest leader. Makes more sense rather then now.

The problem seems to be that the a.i cannot beat the enemy a.i spawners. I think the a.i mostly cannot defend it self either due to the map design. I might have to put permanent defenders on some of the cities.

2) Shadow Gate's description

I think I never paid attention to the descriptions. Normally in Aow:SM all teleporters in the shadow realm were nornal. So should be changed.

3) Typo

Noted.

4) Second encounter with M.

Sometimes, simultaneaous turns have this brief momemt of escaping a turn. However I can prevent this sort of ambush by forcing you to fight this battle anyway. Their is way to overcome this.

5) Shadow Weed

Problably something Hiliadan can process.

6) Graphical glitches

Good job finding and exploiting bugs on the map.

 

[Hiliadan]

• 5) Shadow Weed

- Why don't they give production/resource bonus when in your domain? Still, they retain a proprietary flag, as do Haste Berries when in your domain.

• 6) Graphical glitches

- SE Hunter: the model gets iridescence.
- Central bridge (south to the northernmost bridge): tactical model missing.

Shadow Weed in your domain gives Shadow Walker to units produced in the city. As you can see here, it's normal that it doesn't give any income: https://age-of-wonders-3.fandom.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Shadow_Weed That's a design/balance choice.

For the Hunters, I think it's normal, other SE units are also iridescent.
For the bridge, it's a known issue but I see it wasn't listed in the list of known issue, adding it.

 

[Rodmar18]

For the Hunters, I think it's normal, other SE units are also iridescent.

So, it's a try at render some outlandish armor. Umbral Weaver and Phalangist are the next in the rainbow, as are all the helmets. Supports are not so colored.

• 7) Flowrock

Is it normal that the Flowrock Quarry and Vault of Knowledge, though fully functional with correct headers and tooltips, don't allow for building their respective MCU in the town which own them? The only MCU available on the eastern part of the map seems to be the Crystal Armory.

 

[Refineus]

So, it's a try at render some outlandish armor. Umbral Weaver and Phalangist are the next in the rainbow, as are all the helmets. Supports are not so colored.

• 7) Flowrock

Is it normal that the Flowrock Quarry and Vault of Knowledge, though fully functional with correct headers and tooltips, don't allow for building their respective MCU in the town which own them? The only MCU available on the eastern part of the map seems to be the Crystal Armory.

I would say this is something that belongs to all the various clones of "Shadow Realm editions" that is available in our mod. I think it will be fixed later

 

[Hiliadan]

Yes, it's a known issue in the Steam build, is fixed in the developer build.

 

[Hiliadan]

I started tests on map 3.

Some first comments:
- I started with Stoning, Killer Instinct, Animate Ruins, Summon Lost Soul. Is that intended? I think Stoning is a bit strong to start with. Animate Ruins might also be, depending how the scenario is played
- starting with all 4 heroes from previous scenarios means you'll have very high level heroes with lots of good items. So it means the difficulty of map 3 probably needs to be one step higher than the previous two maps.
- having a Dungeon right at the start makes things a bit too easy for strong players who will immediately clear it and get 2 T3 (or 1 T3, 1T2)


Otherwise, some errors I got in the log (some might be due to the general mod, not the campaign, let me know if they seem familiar to you @Refineus, otherwise I'll add them to the stuff to fix in the Content mod);

Map 1:
- [22:55:55][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 4. Message was:
[22:55:55][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] [string ""]:4: attempt to index field 'YAKA_FX' (a nil value)
=> this is also triggered on map 2 and 3
- (when using HEIN) [22:58:28][SCRIPT ERROR] No unit found with the alias: FROST_TANK

Map 2:
- 22:59:21][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 9. Message was:
[22:59:21][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] [string ""]:9: attempt to index global 'HexWorld' (a nil value)
- (immediately after round 1 started) [22:59:24][SCRIPT ERROR] Timer WR_TIMER_1 is not running
- (immediately after round 2 started)
[23:01:57][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_5
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_6
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_7
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_8
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] Timer WR_TIMER_2 is not running

Map 3:
- [23:16:09][ERROR][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 13. Message was:
[23:16:10][ERROR] [string ""]:13: attempt to index field 'VISITED_PFX' (a nil value)
- (immediately after round 1 started) [23:16:11][SCRIPT ERROR] Get Saved Unit failed! Can't get the saved unit COLM

 

[Refineus]

Map 1:
- [22:55:55][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 4. Message was:
[22:55:55][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] [string ""]:4: attempt to index field 'YAKA_FX' (a nil value)
=> this is also triggered on map 2 and 3
- (when using HEIN) [22:58:28][SCRIPT ERROR] No unit found with the alias: FROST_TANK

Triggering "hein" will cause side effects and make scripts malfunction. This alias has not been created yet in the beginning.

Those world activate is bound to something from the mod. They usally fire up before the level editor has loaded any of the maps.

Map 2:
- 22:59:21][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 9. Message was:
[22:59:21][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] [string ""]:9: attempt to index global 'HexWorld' (a nil value)
- (immediately after round 1 started) [22:59:24][SCRIPT ERROR] Timer WR_TIMER_1 is not running
- (immediately after round 2 started)
[23:01:57][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_5
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_6
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_7
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] No marker found with the alias: GENERIC_WR_2_8
[23:01:58]
[23:01:58][SCRIPT ERROR] Timer WR_TIMER_2 is not running

I will look into to thoose. It might also be a hein thing.

Map 3:
- [23:16:09][ERROR][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 13. Message was:
[23:16:10][ERROR] [string ""]:13: attempt to index field 'VISITED_PFX' (a nil value)
- (immediately after round 1 started) [23:16:11][SCRIPT ERROR] Get Saved Unit failed! Can't get the saved unit COLM

Hein again. The game cannot find an alias never met from the first scenario disabling it from activating in the third scenario

Only effect that might occur is that message icons can be missing.

The first error is likely caused by the mod

 

[Hiliadan]

"- (when using HEIN) [22:58:28][SCRIPT ERROR] No unit found with the alias: FROST_TANK"

Ok but are you sure that 1/ it is not possible to finish the map without creatign the FROST_TANK alias (or in other words are you sure FROST_TANK alias will be created 100% of the time) and 2/ that if it is not created, it is not a big issue?

"[23:16:11][SCRIPT ERROR] Get Saved Unit failed! Can't get the saved unit COLM"
Ok so you mean COLM should be a "saved unit" obtained in the first scenario?

 

[Refineus]

"- (when using HEIN) [22:58:28][SCRIPT ERROR] No unit found with the alias: FROST_TANK"

Ok but are you sure that 1/ it is not possible to finish the map without creatign the FROST_TANK alias (or in other words are you sure FROST_TANK alias will be created 100% of the time) and 2/ that if it is not created, it is not a big issue?

"[23:16:11][SCRIPT ERROR] Get Saved Unit failed! Can't get the saved unit COLM"
Ok so you mean COLM should be a "saved unit" obtained in the first scenario?

Without spoiling to much. What you do in the first maps actually carries over. Frost tank need a boolean, Colm not.

 

[Hiliadan]

The starting location looks great visually, as usual, good work Refineus! And I'm looking forward to discovering the entirety of the map.

- I started with Stoning, Killer Instinct, Animate Ruins, Summon Lost Soul. Is that intended? I think Stoning is a bit strong to start with. Animate Ruins might also be, depending how the scenario is played
- starting with all 4 heroes from previous scenarios means you'll have very high level heroes with lots of good items. So it means the difficulty of map 3 probably needs to be one step higher than the previous two maps.
- having a Dungeon right at the start makes things a bit too easy for strong players who will immediately clear it and get 2 T3 (or 1 T3, 1T2)

I confirm my previous comments. I cleared the Dungeon with the balance mod on (so taking 15 physical damage every turn) and on Hard difficulty, with my starting units and with my heroes at level 1 except Sydran (level 6, Call Ancestral Spirits) and Meandor (level 3).
The combo of starting units is very strong for experienced players, with Reanimator to boost spirit damage and attacks + a Necro = many Raise Corpse and Healing, an AD to get animals, a Theo to get everything, a Raptor to tank...

Also the starting Cave might be reduced in size or filled with more stuff (but ideally not a Animal's Den because it also allows to get a Baby Shock Serpent with 92% chances with the balance mod and 100% chance without it), because currently it leads you to waste some of your troops' movement without encountering anything, which is a bit boring.
AND/OR give a starting message indicating we should head west to the exit of the Cave, so that you don't have to waste movement looking for the exit.

Similarly might be good to add a low level site between the starting area and the Ice Queen blockers, otherwise 2 turns without doing anything.

Why does the dialogue with Artica suddenly fires up when you are still in the middle of the tunnel before the Ice Queen blockers (and not even in their sight) on turn 5? I think it fires too early. The dialogue with the Frostling Royal Guards fire after it, which is probably not intended?
By the way, the portrait shows a Royal Guard but it could probably show an Ice Queen (as it's the guards' Leader).


By the way, found this thread with some (not so well done) examples of the Wizards done in AoW3: http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=36,5773,30,all

 

[Hiliadan]

I like the Sunken City and Air Mana Node accessible only on Water. I think the Dungeon could be moved to an area also accessible only after moving through Water (and its current location could be replaced by a Lost Library for instance). That way, players heavily focused on exploration will go get it and be happy about it, and rushing player won't get it and won't benefit from its troops.
Similarly, might be interesting to have some tunnels to dig in Dirt Cavern Walls for collectioner players to find some hidden place/treasures.

I got no dialogue when I met the Frostling city. I guess it's there that the dialogue with Artica should have triggered.
Also no dialogue when I met Imanuit near the independent Frostling city.

I lost stupidly Grevara at the Frostling City as she got Frozen and something weird happen: I immediately lost the battle but I didn't lose the game. Probably something not fully set up in the Quests? There is no Quest saying you need to keep Grevara, etc. alive in the Quest tab.

I suggest adding more Frostling Ice Scapers as defenders of the city as it makes for an interesting battle.

 

[Refineus]

Why does the dialogue with Artica suddenly fires up when you are still in the middle of the tunnel before the Ice Queen blockers (and not even in their sight) on turn 5? I think it fires too early. The dialogue with the Frostling Royal Guards fire after it, which is probably not intended?
By the way, the portrait shows a Royal Guard but it could probably show an Ice Queen (as it's the guards' Leader).

It happens that the timers are set of true, which should not be the case. They should come later somewhere after the cave triggered by something.

Can probably change the alias to the Ice queen.

Also the starting Cave might be reduced in size or filled with more stuff (but ideally not a Animal's Den because it also allows to get a Baby Shock Serpent with 92% chances with the balance mod and 100% chance without it), because currently it leads you to waste some of your troops' movement without encountering anything, which is a bit boring.
AND/OR give a starting message indicating we should head west to the exit of the Cave, so that you don't have to waste movement looking for the exit.

A hint probably. I do not know about indicating an exit would defeat the purpose of landing in an unknown destination. Probably some changes in the location might be enough. The watchtower should be sufficient.

By the way, found this thread with some (not so well done) examples of the Wizards done in AoW3: http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=36,5773,30,all

Aah, I already read it before I created some of the wizards. I think the creator took to many shortcuts.

I like the Sunken City and Air Mana Node accessible only on Water. I think the Dungeon could be moved to an area also accessible only after moving through Water (and its current location could be replaced by a Lost Library for instance). That way, players heavily focused on exploration will go get it and be happy about it, and rushing player won't get it and won't benefit from its troops.
Similarly, might be interesting to have some tunnels to dig in Dirt Cavern Walls for collectioner players to find some hidden place/treasures.

I do think about these points. I don't remember if "ice walls" are diggable or something. If they are it can be great. Otherwise, the sudden brown dirt wall will be super obvious.

I got no dialogue when I met the Frostling city. I guess it's there that the dialogue with Artica should have triggered.
Also no dialogue when I met Imanuit near the independent Frostling city.

I lost stupidly Grevara at the Frostling City as she got Frozen and something weird happen: I immediately lost the battle but I didn't lose the game. Probably something not fully set up in the Quests? There is no Quest saying you need to keep Grevara, etc. alive in the Quest tab.

I suggest adding more Frostling Ice Scapers as defenders of the city as it makes for an interesting battle.

There is only one quest so far. The completed map will probably have more than one quest. However, some dialogues probably fired up too early due to the wrongly added timer.

 

[Refineus]

A comparison between the old map and the new one.

The progress of mission 3c is a little different mission. To an extent, I have a good idea to make this mission a little of a side off where the map will break off from the traditional build-up-your-so-called-empire and finish off the other empires. I've given another solution to this where Meandor probably ran off alone and let Sydran and the other heroes go after the other wizards. This mission will instead feature the great trade location expanded in the AOW III engine later.

 

[Refineus]

Apart from the broken cave scene there has been a heavy update on scenario 1.

To fix the various exploits. The map has seen new work arounds thats is very different.

I will not implement more things in the map unless its bugs or fixes. The map will be treated as final product from now on. Next up will be fixing the second scenario and implement the new additions that is possible.