Shadow Realm Community Expansion - Development

[Dr_K]

What description did you add here exactly? Were they provided by Drax? I need to update them on the Wikia.

Sorry, I thought I had mentioned it in the previous response when I talked about the updated list, but I apparently forgot or deleted it. Those descriptions are going to be cleared out so that the placeholder doesn't show up in game. We can add the actual lore descriptions whenever they are ready.

Wizard King - Tundra (or Temperate)

I'm in favor of temperate. Tundra seems weird to me for Inioch.

Actually, I would like to suggest Underground climate around Mab's Forgotten Throne. As I've just remembered that its a thing.

One possible caveat. This is likely workable, but has the possibility of running into issues like I found when trying to paint water tiles. I've never tried painting subterranean yet.

1/ we allow Shadow Sickness to stack with Vulnerable to Shadow Sickness, and non-Shadow Walkers get -2/-2/-2. This is the easiest solution and I think I favour it.

I like this option. It ends up being -1/-1/-1 outside of the SR but will stack to -2/-2/-2 in the SR.

Would this also affect units that temporarily have Lesser Shadow Walker? My assumption was, no based on the wording, but want to clarify before implementing, as I don't remember all of the locations where you can use properties vs requisites to filter effects. Might have to do some minor finagling to get it to work correctly.

I'm going to finish as much of the above list as I can this week (excepting the mithril mine RMG change). Barring any objections to push off the release even farther. I'm going to get everything together to release the mods on steam on Friday (unsure on time, probably around 1600-1700 UTC).

 

[Hiliadan]

Would this also affect units that temporarily have Lesser Shadow Walker?

Yes Lesser Shadow Walking does not prevent Shadow Sickness as already planned in the Wikia: https://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Lesser_Shadow_Walker We had checked earlier and aura cannot filter based on properties.

Ok so let's go for Shadow Sickness stacking with Vulnerable to Shadow Sickness. I update the Wikia: https://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Shadow_Sickness

I'm fine with the current Forgotten Throne terrain themes. I don't think we need to change them.

So you mean Wetland and Dense Vegetation etc.?
Ok so you don't change your opinion but there is still a majority to change to climate-based projections.

 

[HousePet]

This is likely workable, but has the possibility of running into issues like I found when trying to paint water tiles. I've never tried painting subterranean yet.

I had an 'incident' with my terraforming mod that got the Underground climate painted on the Surface layer.
Water I never got working, but Underground probably works.

 

[Dr_K]

And......It's published!

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566254031
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1566255077

It could use some more differing images, but it's a minor detail.

I can only add other contributors who are my friends. @Draxynnic and @Liberty_Valance, if you want to be listed as an "official" contributor (no idea what it actually entails, if anything) just add me on steam if you have it and want to. I could not seem to easily identify either of you. Otherwise, everyone is listed in the description of the main mod who isn't "officially". I think I've added or am in the process of adding everyone else that I could recognize.

One thing that I haven't checked yet is the file set that is downloaded. The mod is about 55MB which seems a bit big. I'm not sure if it is including the backup maps (the tilde ~ extension files) or not, but verifying that we don't have any way to shrink that would be nice.

I managed to fix most of the remaining items on my list before publishing, but not all. I'll update the list in a little bit with what was fixed.

I had an 'incident' with my terraforming mod that got the Underground climate painted on the Surface layer.
Water I never got working, but Underground probably works.

Good to know.


Actually, I'm just adding the list below instead of editing the other post.

--Forge of Dreams Desc added
--Tenebrous Citadel desc removed from xml -- uses the same one that all other racial T3 buildings use
--Archon building descriptions added -- Chamber of Rejuvenation description and actual functionality doesn't match wikia desc
--Shrine of Storms PFX linked. I think Bob finished them a while ago, but they were never linked.
--Removed duplicate descriptions in xml.
--Shadow Artifact updated to revised version (always inflict penalty if not a Shadow Walker)
--Shadow Sickness Empire upgrade has better description. Still needs to be updated to the longer one with the "unaffected list"
--Call Forth Darkness fixed morale penalty. Shouldn't display as "Plunged" anymore.
--Fixed the Obelisk of Life so it doesn't affect Elementals and Machines any more. It still doesn't affect Archons, but the description should currently match what it does.
--Fixed the Shadow Weed Decoction description issue.

One other thing that we might want to change is the resource bonus that the Archon Dwelling gets from the Holy Altar to differentiate the Living Archons from the dead ones. My first thought would be to switch to research, or possibly split it between research and mana.

 

[Draxynnic]

I've renamed the "Archon lore snippets" file in the Drafts folder on the Dropbox to simply "Lore snippets", since that seemed like a convenient location to keep it all together. I've added a blurb for the Lightning Cannon - I'll fill out the other missing units as time and inspiration allows.

 

[Hiliadan]

Great!

I updated the list of known issue in the other thread.

One other thing that we might want to change is the resource bonus that the Archon Dwelling gets from the Holy Altar to differentiate the Living Archons from the dead ones. My first thought would be to switch to research, or possibly split it between research and mana.

Mmh, I don't see the need to differentiate the living Archon from the undead ones for the +10 mana. I think the symetry makes sense given that, as far as I understand, the undead Archon Dwellings are living ones who became undead?

 

[Refineus]

We should add some more pictures of the shadow elven units probably at steam content.'

We should also remove Hilliadan test realm from the scenario content, when we update the mod next time.

 

[Hiliadan]

We should also remove Hilliadan test realm from the scenario content, when we update the mod next time.

Mmh, as long as we're in open beta, I would not remove it because we need it. You can maybe rename it with a more appropriate name (it was never my test realm, others used it to test too) like "Shadow Realm test map", but it's still very needed and useful.

 

[Dr_K]

We should add some more pictures of the shadow elven units probably at steam content.'

Regarding this. Can anyone I've added a co-creator do anything as far as management/admin tasks are concerned for the mod? My understanding was the answer is still no, but wanted to verify.

 

[HousePet]

For some unit pics, we can either use the unit window with the flavour description readable, or an ability tooltip showing (or both), or we could show the unit using its unique ability in combat. For that one, take the screenshot before using the ability but with it aimed at enemies, so people can see its name, what abilities it has and what the ability we are showing does.

Pic suggestions:
Arcane Archer.
Crusader with Storm Champion ability tooltipped.
Engineer with Shadow Bomb.
Exterminator. Flavour text is great on this one.
Infused for Shadow Shift.
Shaman showing Tame Shadow Demon.
Storm Priest showing Summon Lightning Sprite.
Touched for the flavour text, as it explains why 'Shadow' Elves.
Shrine of Storms, since its a unique variation.
Lightning Cannon, ditto.
One instance each of Inflict Marked by Shadows and Exploit Shadows.
Should have a Hero or two as well.

For other pic:
Would be good to have a couple of the Archon Dwelling city screen.
Some Sites that would be good to show are: Forge of Dreams, Beacon of Light, Archon Fort, a Shadow Gate, Hollow Grove (which seems to be missing a ToW entry), and perhaps a Forgotten Throne?

 

[Refineus]

Regarding this. Can anyone I've added a co-creator do anything as far as management/admin tasks are concerned for the mod? My understanding was the answer is still no, but wanted to verify.

I cant do anything apart from adding neccesary changing notes, adding or deleting required dlc or articles needed. I can even add Links.

Rest is gravy. No pictures or anything.

We have also private developer notes if we want to add something.

 

[HousePet]

Annoying that co-creator doesn't allow adding pictures.

 

[Hiliadan]

I suggest we rename both mods in the Steam Workshop for now:
- main mod should be renamed "Shadow Realm Expansion - Content - OPEN BETA" (add "OPEN BETA" to make it clear)
- RMG mod should be renamed "Shadow Realm Expansion - Shadow layer - OPEN BETA". It is not very clear for users what "RMG Integration" means and what the mod actually does is to add the Shadow layer, so better to say it explicitely. And also add "OPEN BETA" to be clear.


I added a FAQ for the expansion's open beta in the Wikia: https://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion#FAQ


Regarding the pictures, I suggest we remove the current last 3 and keep only the one showing a Draconian city with many sites. Because the one with Meandor has the wrong SE icon, and the other 2 show no new site and 2 Quarries.

Then, I had suggested picking from these:

- the 7 screenshots of Shadow Elf line-ups in \Dropbox\AoW3-Shadow-Realm-expansion\pics
- \Dropbox\AoW3-Shadow-Realm-expansion\pics\ShadowElf_LeadersHeroes\Leader Meandor.jpg
- this picture of Shadow Demons: https://www.my-league.com/games/273...98/273/152861834820180610_SR-open-beta_SD.jpg

I still suggest we show some of the SE line-ups. We could put all 7, but would be good to at least pick 2.
Meandor's picture needs to be redone with the new SE icon.
The Shadow Demon picture can be used.

Pic suggestions:
Arcane Archer.
Crusader with Storm Champion ability tooltipped.
Engineer with Shadow Bomb.
Exterminator. Flavour text is great on this one.
Infused for Shadow Shift.
Shaman showing Tame Shadow Demon.
Storm Priest showing Summon Lightning Sprite.
Touched for the flavour text, as it explains why 'Shadow' Elves.
Shrine of Storms, since its a unique variation.
Lightning Cannon, ditto.
One instance each of Inflict Marked by Shadows and Exploit Shadows.
Should have a Hero or two as well.

For other pic:
Would be good to have a couple of the Archon Dwelling city screen.
Some Sites that would be good to show are: Forge of Dreams, Beacon of Light, Archon Fort, a Shadow Gate, Hollow Grove (which seems to be missing a ToW entry), and perhaps a Forgotten Throne?
- then it would be interesting to have 1 picture from the beginning of the campaign (the dialogues where you pick the Golem) and 1 picture from the Shadow Realm from the campaign (with some nice sites, etc. in high quality visuals)

That's a lot of pictures. I suggest we use the SR_Workshop_screenshot_Weaver.jpg in the Dropbox\AoW3-Shadow-Realm-expansion\pics\SteamWorkshop folder, as well as the Abandoned Golem.jpg
Then if someone wants to make some screenshot in high quality of some of the things on the list above, we could include them as well. Please put them in the Dropbox\AoW3-Shadow-Realm-expansion\pics\SteamWorkshop folder. I don't think we shoud pick more than 5 or so, having 30 pictures is probably too much.

 

[Dr_K]

- RMG mod should be renamed "Shadow Realm Expansion - Shadow layer - OPEN BETA". It is not very clear for users what "RMG Integration" means and what the mod actually does is to add the Shadow layer, so better to say it explicitely. And also add "OPEN BETA" to be clear.

No, that is not at all clearer and flat out wrong as the Shadow Layer is truly in the Decodence mod. The name will stay as "RMG Integration" tag to parallel the "Decodence - RMG Integration" mod that is also required.

I will add the "Beta" tag to both mods. The "Open" part is redundant for a publicly accessible release of a beta.

I don't think we shoud pick more than 5 or so, having 30 pictures is probably too much.

The more the better. 30 is definitely not too many pictures, but might be more than we need. The pictures should both be informative and cover a decent amount of the content provided in the mod.

 

[Hiliadan]

No, that is not at all clearer and flat out wrong as the Shadow Layer is truly in the Decodence mod. The name will stay as "RMG Integration" tag to parallel the "Decodence - RMG Integration" mod that is also required.

Sorry but it is not flat out wrong at all. Decodence does NOT bring the Shadow LAYER. It brings the Shadow Climate. The only thing that brings the layer is the RMG mod and that's the only thing it does. So it's totally correct to say that the mod is the Shadow layer. If you don't want to play with the Shadow layer, don't activate the mod and you play the expansion with surface and UG. If you want to play with the 3rd layer, activate the mod. You'll explain to me how that's not a Shadow layer mod.

 

[HousePet]

I was mainly suggesting pics of the interesting things we have. It turns out we have a lot.
We can split the images over the two mods screens so it doesn't seem like so many:
Place the unit/leader images in the Content mod and place the structure/terrain images in the RMG mod.

 

[Dr_K]

Decodence contains not only the Shadow Realm Climate, but also completes all of legwork to have a Shadow Realm layer on an arbitrary map. This is the precise reason the campaign does not require the "Shadow Layer" mod to create a map with the Shadow Realm Layer at all. Calling this mod "Shadow Layer" completely obscures what it actually does and implicitly credits the Decodence shadow realm content to this mod instead.

This mod contains NO definitions for any of the actual content in the Shadow Realm. The only thing this mod does is tell the random map generator to use the content from the Content mod and create another layer and apply the Shadow Realm Layer type definition from Decodence to it. This mod is NOT required to use the Shadow Realm Layer in anything other than a Random Map. It is a RMG patch only.

 

[Hiliadan]

his mod is NOT required to use the Shadow Realm Layer in anything other than a Random Map. It is a RMG patch only.

Alright, I get your point. However, nobody is going to play the Shadow layer in custom maps because nobody does custom maps (or play them for that matter). So except for the campaign, if you want to use the Shadow layer, you need the mod.
The point of calling the mod "Shadow layer" is not to steal Charlatan work, I think it is clearly aknowledged everywhere. But it should be easy to see that it's much easier for non-specialists to understand that to play with the Shadow layer (in RMG, because 99% of games or more are played on RMG on AoW3), you need the "Shadow layer" mod. The "RMG Integration" is not self-explanatory.
Could be "RMG Shadow layer" if you want. But OK if you don't want to change it.

 

[Hiliadan]

Inhabitants of the Shadow Realm (layer)
In the Wikia, it's written: Draconian and Shadow Elf cities can be found in the Shadow Realm, as well as Dragon, Revenant Archon and (living) Archon Dwellings.

I don't remember when / why we said Revenant Archon should be there. HousePet pointed out to me that I should delete them. What about Dragons? We currently don't have Dragon Dwelling on the Shadow layer as far as I know, I guess we should add them?

 

[HousePet]

We do have Dragon Dwellings on the Shadow Layer, which is why I didn't mention it as an issue.

With regard to the RMG integration mod only adding the Shadow Realm Layer to the RMG, this is not entirely correct.
Without that mod the Shadow Void is labelled Lava Pool.
It also disables audio reverb and changes something about the camera iirc.